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| The gap between Nappa and Goku | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 9 2017, 05:21 PM (2,660 Views) | |
| Dear Leader | Feb 9 2017, 05:21 PM Post #1 |
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Goku, with a power level of over 8,000, effortlessly clobbers a frustrated Nappa. Vegeta tells Nappa to calm down and use his head. Subsequently, Nappa briefly fights on much closer terms with Goku, with Goku even remarking that this was "much better" and that the fight will "take forever". How do you reconcile this with the implied 2x gap of Nappa's "official" databook number of 4,000 compared to Goku's ~8,000? I wonder if Nappa, when fully powered up and with a calm head, is perhaps closer to ~7,000? Vegeta thought to himself that, given Nappa's lack of progress, he "may" have to step in himself - not that he absolutely would, despite Vegeta having knowledge of Nappa's power level and being fully aware of Goku's. If there was such a big gap, why the hesitation? Why not call Nappa down immediately? What is your power level for Nappa? Edited by Dear Leader, Feb 9 2017, 05:22 PM.
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| + Kaboom | Feb 9 2017, 05:30 PM Post #2 |
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As the infamous expert on this topic, there's two main solid ways I approach it: 1) "Gaps" are baloney, and a simple comparison of numbers isn't everything. There's no factual, established reason why a 4k power can't put up a good fight against an 8k power by being hardy, skilled, and focused. 2) Toriyama's made distinct mention of how Saiyans can actually get rapidly stronger the longer they fight, and this seems like a perfect example of that. Nappa WAS completely outclassed by Goku at first, but his tenacity and natural durability let him stay in the fight long enough for his power to start rising significantly. Which in addition to calming down let him start to perform better, but it still wasn't happening quickly enough for Vegeta. By the time the fight ended, Nappa may have been at something like 6,000 instead. |
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| SuperSaiyanGodGogeta | Feb 9 2017, 05:39 PM Post #3 |
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Nappa's power level is 4,000 as stated. |
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| + Saiyan Paladin | Feb 9 2017, 06:07 PM Post #4 |
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I have Nappa at ~7,500. |
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| Kblo247 | Feb 9 2017, 06:24 PM Post #5 |
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Nappa is that skilled when he isn't a bumbling idiot? Lets not act like it is that far from the truth. Krillin at 1770 is able to kick nappa in the face and dodge him at point blank range. Tien at 1830 gets his hand chopped off, can't land a hit and is thrown around. Skill plus level headed thinking kept the 2x gap from simply walloping them in the case of Krillin-Nappa and calm Napa-Goku as Goku says that it would take all day |
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| SSJ | Feb 9 2017, 06:26 PM Post #6 |
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As the more infamous expert on this subject, Nappa is factually over 7,000 at minimum. Closer to 8k is the most factual. |
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Feb 9 2017, 06:35 PM Post #7 |
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I wouldn't put him above 7000. It was somewhat close goku still had an advantage for sure |
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| EMIYA | Feb 9 2017, 06:36 PM Post #8 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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I'd like to make the reminder that Nappa does power up after Vegeta tells him to calm down, then starts his counterattack against Goku. At which point it becomes a much closer fight, with each trading blows, dodging, etc. Gaps in the manga were surprisingly very consistent. It's hard to tell if he did but Toriyama seems to have paid close attention to the kind of numbers he used and the gaps to make things flow consistently. This is why we have that 1.3x gap because all fights within that number or above ended up being curb stomps while numbers below that ended up being much closer. It was easy to kind of make a map of gaps on where things stood. Not only did Toriyama seem to realize this and one of the reason's he stopped using numbers is because he knew that these numbers told how a I fight would last. It took away from the curiosity because if you know the gap, you kind of know the outcome of the fight. Either way the manga as I said was consistent on its gaps and its only fair to use that consistency here. If someone like Vegeta who is every bit (if not more so) strurdy as Nappa and far more skilled can't touch KK3 Goku with a gap of around 1.3x, I thin it's only fair the gap between Nappa and Goku should be closer. It's only the guidebooks that really screw around these consistencies and considering Toriyama had little to anything to do with them, I think it's foolish to even use them. Especially when a few of the numbers in the guidebooks are just plain wrong, like King Piccolo>Kami. |
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| Darker | Feb 9 2017, 07:02 PM Post #9 |
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The Lord of the Dark
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He and Goku seemed pretty even when he powered up and decided to get serious, so I don't buy him being over 2x weaker by that point. |
Piccolo: Just how many people have you sacrificed?! Cell: Sacrifice? Hmph, rubbish! On the contrary, it is an honor to become a fraction of my power. | |
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| + Kaboom | Feb 9 2017, 07:02 PM Post #10 |
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On the contrary, intentional or not I'd consider the guidebooks to be conveying the opposite message: "there's no intentional consistency to power level numbers, so don't fuss too much over them." No strict rules to follow about "gaps" means more freedom and leeway, which has always seemed like the healthier approach to me. I sincerely doubt Toriyama was actually trying to stick to any kind of ranges and gaps when he made up numbers for the manga, either. Everyone seems to focus on Vegeta's fights with Kwi, Dodoria, and Zarbon and not much else, which is pretty darn small as far as sample sizes go. But other examples that show much more flexibility seem to go to the wayside. Like Goku and Piccolo (low-400's) managing to take down Raditz (well over 1,000) by being able to drastically enhance their powers through special attacks, one of which had special piercing properties. Or Goku surviving and continuing to fight against both Oozaru Vegeta and 50% Freeza who were both many times stronger than him. Heck, there's even the quote from Toriyama I linked to, saying that Saiyans actually have the ability to get stronger during the course of a single fight the longer it goes on. How's anyone supposed to apply number formulas to these fights when the combatants' powers will actually increase while they're still happening? Power levels are much more flexible and imprecise than many folks seems to realize. Observing trends in the manga is one thing, but turning them into rigid rules and then trying to forcibly apply those fan-made rules to other things is just missing the point entirely and doing it totally wrong. It's like trying to fill a bottle by shoving ice cubes in through the top instead of just, y'know, filling it with liquid water. Edited by Kaboom, Feb 9 2017, 07:11 PM.
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| + Clearin | Feb 9 2017, 07:06 PM Post #11 |
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I don't think that's Nappa powering up so much as it is Nappa charging an attack (which I guess is a kind of powering up as shown with Gohan's Masenko and Goku's kamehameha). Nappa was said to be unable to control his power after all. As for the gap, I'd put Nappa around 7,500-8,000. |
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| Vertical | Feb 9 2017, 07:14 PM Post #12 |
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This is great! This means we can finally justify SSJ being x10 'cause Goku obviously got stronger throughout his lengthy battle with Freeza.
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| DeviantART | |
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| + Pyrus | Feb 9 2017, 08:51 PM Post #13 |
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I have him at 7,800ish. |
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| EMIYA | Feb 9 2017, 09:05 PM Post #14 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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See that's one of those things that I think a lot of people need clarification on. it's like, Goku survived 50% Freeza so power levels are BS and don't matter. And it's like yes, Goku survived...mainly due to plot reasons but he still struggled with Freeza. The obvious gap between them was notable and beyond being able to survive, Goku is clearly outlcassed in this fight and its only after using ki enhancing techniques like the Genki-Dama or transforming into a more powerful form such as Super Saiyan. The same thing with Raditz. Goku and Piccolo with their power could not defeat much less touch Raditz. Their 400+ could not stop his 1000+. It was only after Gohan came in with a PL of 1300+ and Piccolo's attack with a similar level that Raditz faced trouble. in the end, these characters won because they closed the gap or surpassed the gap presented by their opponents. |
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| * Yu Narukami | Feb 9 2017, 09:15 PM Post #15 |
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Izanagi!
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I'd put Nappa at 7,500. Why would it take Goku all day to beat somebody who's at 4,000 if he can amp himself up to 18,000 at least? |
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