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Super Saiyan 2's design is terrible.; title
Topic Started: Feb 1 2017, 09:08 AM (3,722 Views)
breaker335
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Just gonna say plenty of people have provided plenty of the same exact argument Emment presented. Just take a moment to really think how right you are.
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Scotty_Rogers
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breaker335
Feb 3 2017, 02:40 PM
Just gonna say plenty of people have provided plenty of the same exact argument Emment presented. Just take a moment to really think how right you are.
And there are plenty of people out there who are thrown off by Super Saiyan 2's design. Just because a couple of hardcore fans on a message board think there's no problem with it doesn't make it so. Super Saiyan 2 is a very forgettable transformation for most people.

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Just take a moment to really think how right you are.


Oh, I have. SS2 actually used to be my favorite form for quite a while. But as I grew older and thought more about it, I realized something: it doesn't look any different from Super Saiyan 1 at all. The forms look exactly the same (yes, exactly the same), which makes it very easy to get them mixed up. That's an objective problem with its design.
Edited by Scotty_Rogers, Feb 3 2017, 03:40 PM.
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Darker
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breaker335
Feb 3 2017, 02:40 PM
Just gonna say plenty of people have provided plenty of the same exact argument Emment presented. Just take a moment to really think how right you are.
I feel like this whole argument isn't all about being right or wrong as much as it is about different opinions clashing against one another.
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I Yoeri

It's about lightning and the facts I have presented. I'm saying that's a major difference between SS and SS2 and Scotty_Rogers disagrees with that.

It's not about opinions at all. Generally I agree that it's a very forgettable form, it becomes fodder already in the Boo arc.
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Darker
Feb 3 2017, 03:42 PM
breaker335
Feb 3 2017, 02:40 PM
Just gonna say plenty of people have provided plenty of the same exact argument Emment presented. Just take a moment to really think how right you are.
I feel like this whole argument isn't all about being right or wrong as much as it is about different opinions clashing against one another.
I heavily suspect it's just Scotty either simply trolling or wanting an echo chamber for his little hang-up and not getting one.
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Emmeth
Feb 3 2017, 03:47 PM
It's about lightning and the facts I have presented. I'm saying that's a major difference between SS and SS2 and Scotty_Rogers disagrees with that.


To be fair there aren't really many differences between the two forms.

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It's not about opinions at all.


It seems like a lot of people here are on the side of "Ssj2 looks awesome" while Scotty's on the side of "My GOD does it look awful and unoriginal".
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There aren't many differences between the two forms. There are minor cosmetic differences such as more aggressive facial expressions, but overall they do look incredibly similar, and without the auras, you're basically shooting s*** in a bucket when it comes to post-Cell Games Gohan, DBS Trunks, and especially Vegeta. The aura is what really sets 2 apart from 1, but it's also what seems to be forgotten about in promotional material.

3 doesn't look much different from the others apart from the lack of eyebrows, but I guess it's something you'd notice if they were all in a group without auras.

What I'm really trying to say is that Super Saiyan 4 is a gold mine for the innovation it offered. You could pick it apart in a room of a thousand Super Saiyans 1-3.
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Darker
Feb 3 2017, 04:52 PM
Emmeth
Feb 3 2017, 03:47 PM
It's about lightning and the facts I have presented. I'm saying that's a major difference between SS and SS2 and Scotty_Rogers disagrees with that.


To be fair there aren't really many differences between the two forms.

Quote:
 
It's not about opinions at all.


It seems like a lot of people here are on the side of "Ssj2 looks awesome" while Scotty's on the side of "My GOD does it look awful and unoriginal".
Fair enough, though I never commented on the form itself, only differences.
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It's the same expression, so it's silly to bring it up.


But...you're the one that brought it up?

There's no reason for Goku to suddenly be making a goofy face when he transforms or to suddenly grow a moustache. His expression doesn't change but the design of his face does slightly.

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From an art perspective SSj2 makes one look more kind of angry or agitated


The exact same as SS1.


Not really. SSj1 is far more relaxed when the person is relaxed.
There's a difference between someone being angry in SSj1 and constantly looking angry in SSj2.

I mean just look at Goku and Gohan when they master it or are relaxed, they go back to the regular wide eyed expression they have in base form.

Every time someone goes SSj2 they're basically constantly serious, it's a power you can only use when you really mean it which makes the design changes notable, certainly not drastic but it's hardly exactly the same.
The aura is far more jagged and violent looking too.



You can say the form looks terrible if you want but you have to acknowledge that there are differences.
Not many and not all of them highly noticeable but saying there are no differences is just incorrect.


If people don't know when someone is SSj2 they either aren't paying attention to detail or the animation is lacking the necessary detail, like Gohan in the Broly movie.
It's fairly difficult to figure out when he goes SSj2 or not because Toei is shamefully bad.
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Scotty_Rogers
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Emmeth
Feb 3 2017, 03:47 PM
It's about lightning and the facts I have presented. I'm saying that's a major difference between SS and SS2 and Scotty_Rogers disagrees with that.
Fam, all you're saying is that lightning creates a big difference between the forms. It doesn't. Lightning is just something that's part of the aura. Most viewers don't look at the aura; they just look at the character.

You're arguing that a change in aura makes a character look like they're in a different form. By your logic, Goku looks like he's in a different form when he uses Kaioken; he gets a red aura:
Spoiler: click to toggle


Nah fam, he doesn't look like he's in a different form. He still looks like he's in his base form.

By your logic, SSB Goku looks like he's in a different form when he uses Kaioken; he gets a red aura on top of his blue one:
Spoiler: click to toggle


Nah fam, he doesn't look like he's in a different form. He still looks like he's Super Saiyan Blue.

By your logic, Goku looks like he's in a different form when he arrives to fight Freeza; he gets this blue one that moves oddly:
Spoiler: click to toggle


Nah fam, he doesn't look like he's in a different form. He still looks like he's in his base form.

By your logic, Ginyu-Goku looks like he's in a different form when he powers up; he gets a gold aura:
Spoiler: click to toggle


Nah fam, he doesn't look like he's in a different form. He still looks like Goku's base form.

By your logic, Imperfect Cell looks like he's in a different form when he powers up before fighting 17; he gets a weird ghostly aura:
Spoiler: click to toggle


Nah fam, he doesn't look like he's in a different form. He still looks like he's in his Imperfect form.

There are times when Toriyama decides to draw Super Saiyan with blue aura. By your logic, the blue aura makes Gohan and Vegeta look like they're in different forms.
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Nah fam, they don't look like they're in different forms. They still look like they're Super Saiyan.

The fact of the matter is, aura does not make a character look like they're in different forms. To transform means to change your appearance. Your appearance isn't actually changing when you're just glowing with aura.

Characters aren't even always going to have auras in the first place. You know full well that SS2 Gohan looks like he's in the exact same form as SS1 Goku, Vegeta and Trunks here:
Spoiler: click to toggle


Looks exactly like the same form.

And it doesn't matter that most of these examples I give you come from the anime. The anime is part of this franchise and is what most people see. It's plenty relevant in this discussion.

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But...you're the one that brought it up?


Nah fam, Ssj3vegito96 did. I was telling him there is no difference.

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His expression doesn't change but the design of his face does slightly.


Nah fam, it doesn't. It's the same design.

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Not really. SSj1 is far more relaxed when the person is relaxed.


Because the person is relaxed. We've never seen a relaxed SS2 in the first place.

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There's a difference between someone being angry in SSj1 and constantly looking angry in SSj2.


When SS1 is angry, the facial expression is exactly the same as SS2. SS1 always looked angry until Goku and Gohan "mastered" it in the Time Chamber.

But anyway, a change in facial expression does not make a character look like they're in a different form. It just looks like expressing different emotions, not transforming.

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Every time someone goes SSj2 they're basically constantly serious


Because the form hasn't been "mastered" like SS1 was and no one's ever been calm in the form.

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The aura is far more jagged and violent looking too.


It's not. SS1 often looks just as jagged and violent looking. There is no consistency to how intense aura looks; it changes however the artist sees fit. And as I said before, aura doesn't make a character look like they're in a different form to begin with.

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Not many and not all of them highly noticeable but saying there are no differences is just incorrect.


There really is none.

Kaboom
 
I heavily suspect it's just Scotty either simply trolling or wanting an echo chamber for his little hang-up and not getting one.


You ignored my last response to you just to accuse me of trolling? Why you gotta be like that
Edited by Scotty_Rogers, Feb 4 2017, 05:34 AM.
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Slifer
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Holy crap. Is being right about an opinion that important to you?
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Scotty_Rogers
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I'd appreciate it if y'all would actually respond to what I'm saying instead of ignoring all of it just to complain about me not agreeing with y'all.

Y'all really gonna act like I'm the only person on this forum who gets into rather heated debates with people? :lol:
Edited by Scotty_Rogers, Feb 4 2017, 05:35 AM.
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"I hate this certain thing and I need everyone here to validate my opinion by also hating it" isn't a debate or really any kind of conversation worth having.
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Scotty_Rogers
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"I disagreed with Scotty on SS2's design being bad and said why. Scotty doesn't agree with me and said why. Therefore, he must be an incredibly stubborn troll"

Sound logic, Kaboom. not
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I'm flabbergasted by your latest claim here. You're really gonna tell me it's difficult to tell the difference between Base and Kaioken Goku? And any of the other forms? You are really gonna tell me people have a hard time telling them apart?

It's not difficult to tell SS and SS2 apart by looking at the lightning.
Tell someone the basic information "that SS2 has lightning around the user and SS doesn't" and they will be able to tell them apart when reading the manga.

That is all I'm saying. And I'm done here, I am sick and tired of repeating myself over and over, and from here on out I am not gonna acknowledge you disagreeing, especially if you keep saying "fam".
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