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Super Saiyan 2's design is terrible.; title
Topic Started: Feb 1 2017, 09:08 AM (3,724 Views)
+ Kaboom
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Well this looks familiar.

Like others have pointed out, Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are described by the man himself as being simply "powered-up" versions of Super Saiyan. It makes sense then that level 2's visual differences would be minor, mainly being a more intense aura and spikier hair from the higher energy output. When you think about it, level 3 is actually the odd one out for somehow bringing on more drastic physical mutations.
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Scotty_Rogers
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Your Boy Scotty

Pyrus
Feb 1 2017, 07:13 PM
Even if you took Super Saiyan 3 Goku and put him in that picture with the regular Super Saiyans, a casual person would think he's just got really long hair.
Nah, the lack of eyebrows make it easy to distinguish SS3 from SS1. If SS3 had eyebrows, then it would just look like a long haired SS1.

Slifer
 
Now? Almost none which is even more reason why they should've kept the original SSJ hair (in addition to it looking better)


Keeping the original SS hair for SS1 and using the more detailed look for SS2 wouldn't have made the forms look different. They'd still look like the same thing.

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These both look like the exact same form, only drawn differently.

Kaboom
 
Like others have pointed out, Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are described by the man himself as being simply "powered-up" versions of Super Saiyan.


This doesn't justify SS2 basically looking exactly the same as SS1. The forms aren't supposed to be the same, so they should look noticeably different. Not drastically different, but noticeably. So viewers can actually tell them apart. Because they look so similar to each other, it's difficult to tell them apart, and that's a problem.

You can't tell me there's no problem with SS2's design when people have been arguing whether or not Gohan was SS1 or SS2 against Dabra for more than 20 years. SS2's design is simply terrible.
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Sam
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It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.

I always liked it, but, really, just making the hair spikier and then being inconsistent with the electricity has made it's design... not all that unique. When it was unique to Gohan, it was cool, and identifiable easily. Now, we argue all the time whether a character is in Super Saiyan or Super Saiyan 2.

Overall, I agree with Kaboom.
Edited by Sam, Feb 2 2017, 05:21 AM.
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+ Kaboom
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There's only arguments about "SS1 or SS2 Gohan" for the manga because, for some reason, a lot of people choose to focus solely on Gohan's hair, and ignore the one really big visual difference that SS2 does have from SS1: the aura.

THAT is the standout thing that makes it distinct from SS1 even at a cursory glance, and also manages to perfectly represent SS2's definition as "a powered-up form of Super Saiyan." So the deal ends up being, "the Saiyan's body doesn't look all that different, but man, just look at all that extra energy they're putting out!"
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+ Emmeth
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I Yoeri

I still say lightning is a major factor in knowing the difference. Sparks and consistent lightning is not the same.
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+ Pyrus
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Scotty_Rogers
Feb 2 2017, 04:41 AM
Pyrus
Feb 1 2017, 07:13 PM
Even if you took Super Saiyan 3 Goku and put him in that picture with the regular Super Saiyans, a casual person would think he's just got really long hair.
Nah, the lack of eyebrows make it easy to distinguish SS3 from SS1. If SS3 had eyebrows, then it would just look like a long haired SS1.

Eyebrows are enough to be a noticeable difference? What if he was simply more of a caveman than the other Saiyans? :huh:
Emmeth
Feb 2 2017, 06:52 AM
I still say lightning is a major factor in knowing the difference. Sparks and consistent lightning is not the same.

You're right.
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+ Ssj3vegito96
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The facial expression tends to be a bit more aggressive too

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Mostly the eyes
IT'S CHEESE
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Scotty_Rogers
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Kaboom
Feb 2 2017, 06:44 AM
There's only arguments about "SS1 or SS2 Gohan" for the manga because, for some reason, a lot of people choose to focus solely on Gohan's hair, and ignore the one really big visual difference that SS2 does have from SS1: the aura.
That's not a big visual difference at all. SS1 often has that same electric aura, SS2 often doesn't have that electric aura and the electric aura isn't even a noticeable difference in the first place.

Nappa has an electric aura in the Saiyan saga:
Spoiler: click to toggle


Does the electric aura make him look like he's in a different form than base? No.

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THAT is the standout thing that makes it distinct from SS1 even at a cursory glance


It's not. An electric aura is not noticeable; people look at the character itself, not the aura.

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and also manages to perfectly represent SS2's definition as "a powered-up form of Super Saiyan."


It doesn't. It just looks like the same thing.

SS2's definition is supposed to be "the level of Super Saiyan beyond Super Saiyan", hence the name Super Saiyan 2. It's not supposed to be the same as SS1, so it should look noticeably different. Electricity is not a noticeable difference.

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So the deal ends up being, "the Saiyan's body doesn't look all that different, but man, just look at all that extra energy they're putting out!"


No, the deal just ends up being, "They look the same". Aura does not make a character look like they're in a different form. By your logic, everyone looks like they're transforming when they simply power up.

Pyrus
 
Eyebrows are enough to be a noticeable difference? What if he was simply more of a caveman than the other Saiyans? :huh:


There are no cavemen Saiyans who went SS3, so people can tell the difference by looking at the lack of eyebrows.

Ssj3vegito96
 
The facial expression tends to be a bit more aggressive too
http://i.imgur.com/aH6Lrht.jpg


It's the same facial expression. Just drawn differently.
Edited by Scotty_Rogers, Feb 2 2017, 09:33 AM.
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+ Steve
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

It is the same expression but there's no reason to change it in that instance is there?

From an art perspective SSj2 makes one look more kind of angry or agitated, which makes sense. It clearly changes their personality a bit as that Saiyan blood comes through, same as Goku when he first went Super Saiyan. He was a dick.
Gohan being the obvious prime example of the change. Logically he probably went SSj2 first not because of his potential but because he'd held back his Saiyan nature most of his life.


I like to think of SSj2 as the true Super Saiyan form, SSj1 just being half way to the transformation.
It's the most adaptable form so to me it seems to be the most incomplete.
We've never had SSj2 Grade 2 or Ultra SSj3 because those are set forms.

SSj1 is the state of having not achieved true form yet.


So the lack of huge differences makes sense from this perspective.

SSj2 has the perfect amount of additional muscle mass, more defined hair, a more Saiyan-like attitude comes through in personality and facial expressions.

SSj3 is just an overcharged version, hence the huge drawbacks and almost mutated looking design.


This also makes sense for why Vegeta appears to change so little, he's always angry and Saiyan-like. His true Saiyan features never leave him.

He's not gentle like Gohan, you wouldn't find him unable to reach in and pull out that Saiyan blood for SSj2.



All in all I agree that it's not a particularly unique design but it makes sense...and it's certainly a more impressive visual design than any of the God forms.
Edited by Steve, Feb 2 2017, 12:55 PM.
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Darker
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I mean... At least it's not as terrible as Ssj3, right?
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The reason Nappa had lightning when he powered up in that scene is due to a sudden surge in power. Goku, Vegeta, Trunks, etc. all had lightning when they first powered up to SSJ because they were tapping into an incredible pool of power for the first time.

SSJ2 is different because lightning is constantly present. This was a design choice meant to denote the difference between SSJ and SSJ2. SSJ2 is more powerful, harder to control, and wild. The constant lightning is meant to symbolize the instability and the raw power of the form.

Show me more manga panels of Nappa with lightning surrounding him; otherwise, quit showing us that picture. You're not listening to what we're saying.
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Scotty_Rogers
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Overly Facetious Goblin
Feb 2 2017, 02:56 PM
The reason Nappa had lightning when he powered up in that scene is due to a sudden surge in power.
And he still had lightning. Did he look transformed? No. Lightning does not make you look like you're in a different form.

Quote:
 
Goku, Vegeta, Trunks, etc. all had lightning when they first powered up to SSJ


None of them did.

Quote:
 
SSJ2 is different because lightning is constantly present.


It doesn't look different.

Quote:
 
This was a design choice meant to denote the difference between SSJ and SSJ2.


It's not an actual difference.

Quote:
 
The constant lightning is meant to symbolize the instability and the raw power of the form.


You made that up.

Quote:
 
Show me more manga panels of Nappa with lightning surrounding him


"If a character has aura for a consistent period of time, they look transformed" is literally your argument here.

Quote:
 
You're not listening to what we're saying.


I am. And what you're saying is silly. Sparks don't make an actual difference.

Steve
 
It is the same expression but there's no reason to change it in that instance is there?


It's the same expression, so it's silly to bring it up.

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From an art perspective SSj2 makes one look more kind of angry or agitated


The exact same as SS1.
Edited by Scotty_Rogers, Feb 3 2017, 02:26 AM.
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breaker335
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If sparks don't make a difference, why even include them? Unless you can think of a believable reason to why the sparks are present constantly besides to show an exert of power, please do.
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Scotty_Rogers
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breaker335
Feb 3 2017, 05:07 AM
If sparks don't make a difference, why even include them?
To show that someone's powering up; that's all it looks like. Looking like you're powering up doesn't mean you look like you're in a different form.
Edited by Scotty_Rogers, Feb 3 2017, 06:20 AM.
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...

Scotty_Rogers
Feb 3 2017, 02:25 AM
Overly Facetious Goblin
Feb 2 2017, 02:56 PM
The reason Nappa had lightning when he powered up in that scene is due to a sudden surge in power.
And he still had lightning. Did he look transformed? No. Lightning does not make you look like you're in a different form.

Quote:
 
Goku, Vegeta, Trunks, etc. all had lightning when they first powered up to SSJ


None of them did.

Quote:
 
SSJ2 is different because lightning is constantly present.


It doesn't look different.

Quote:
 
This was a design choice meant to denote the difference between SSJ and SSJ2.


It's not an actual difference.

Quote:
 
The constant lightning is meant to symbolize the instability and the raw power of the form.


You made that up.

Quote:
 
Show me more manga panels of Nappa with lightning surrounding him


"If a character has aura for a consistent period of time, they look transformed" is literally your argument here.

Quote:
 
You're not listening to what we're saying.


I am. And what you're saying is silly. Sparks don't make an actual difference.

Steve
 
It is the same expression but there's no reason to change it in that instance is there?


It's the same expression, so it's silly to bring it up.

Quote:
 
From an art perspective SSj2 makes one look more kind of angry or agitated


The exact same as SS1.
If you cant see the obvious differences between ssj and ssj2 then thats your provlem. I mean there are if there would not be we could not say wow its ssj wow its ssj2 . Surely though they look a bit identical but usually the sparks and the spiky hair easily determines whether its ssj or ssj2 . No need to make long hair or red fur for that

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