Trump's Wall

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Trump's Wall
Tweet Topic Started: Jan 25 2017, 07:52 PM (2,651 Views)
Dingo	Jan 26 2017, 12:22 AM Post #16
Posts: 557 Group: Orangutan Member #9,745 Joined: July 13, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country None Favourite Anime Dragonball What Browser do you use? Chrome	Steve Jan 26 2017, 12:10 AM Wouldn't it be more efficient to just get satellites to monitor the area, slightly increase security and then make getting in to the country legally a bit easier so there's less incentive to go illegally? Satellites are most likely fairly expensive but it'd probably be a lot faster and easier to do than a massive wall. I just can't help but laugh at how silly it sounds. It's just going to make people angry and people who are actually willing to get over the wall are probably going to be the more volatile sort, to go to that kind of length to get in to the country and to probably come with great hatred is pretty alarming. But yes, I'm sure Mexico is the cause of all America's problems. That'd be massively expensive per mile. Currently they only have "effective control of less than 700 miles (1,100 km) of the 1,954 miles (3,145 km) of total border, with an ability to actually prevent or stop illegal entries along 129 miles (208 km) of that border." And to your other point - is it currently very hard for skilled Mexicans to legally enter the U.S? As for efficiency - once the wall is built it'll be much cheaper per mile to control the border and therefore they will be able to expand their "effective control." My main questions are: 1) Is a stronger border something they really need. If yes: 2) To what extent will the wall expand their effective control? If this worth the initial investment? I guess I should talk about your satellites too I don't really see how that helps. The border is massive and the issue is having sufficient boots on the ground to intercept the illegal crossings. Satellites might be useful for gathering data on illegal crossings but not for much else IMO. Edited by Dingo, Jan 26 2017, 01:03 AM.
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Political Piper	Jan 26 2017, 01:03 AM Post #17
Posts: 449 Group: Member Member #13,465 Joined: August 23, 2016 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragonball Z What Browser do you use? Chrome	Nagito, I should also add that if Trump stops Federal funding to Sanctiuary cities the US will save 10.4 billion in New York alone. So that money could definitely be used for preventive maintenance and the like Edited by Political Piper, Jan 26 2017, 01:03 AM.
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+ Solid Snake	Jan 26 2017, 02:14 AM Post #18
滅Are you frightened? Posts: 8,961 Group: Elite Member Member #6,739 Joined: September 11, 2011 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime Dragon ball, z, gt, Naruto & Shippuden, Bleach, Rosario + Vampire What Browser do you use? Kept you waiting huh? Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Naruto, and Bleach	Tinny Jan 25 2017, 08:00 PM All the wall will accomplish in the long run is wasting tax payer money, it's outright impossible for him to finish it even if he gets two presidential terms to do it, it's even more impossible to get Mexico to pay for something they have no desire for, and like Pelador said, most illegal immigrants are allowed in and often don't leave, the drug smuggling is also done often done the same way, they don't sneak through like they're Solid Snake, they just walk through the legal check points. Aww 😊 you mentioned my name aka the Legendary Mercenary lol. Sorry bout the off topicness but I had to comment on that one. The Wall is a waste though.
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* Yu Narukami	Jan 26 2017, 11:35 AM Post #19
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	Political Piper Jan 26 2017, 01:03 AM Nagito, I should also add that if Trump stops Federal funding to Sanctiuary cities the US will save 10.4 billion in New York alone. So that money could definitely be used for preventive maintenance and the like That's assuming that a) they'll do that and b) they'd put all that money towards that. Oh, and here's an interesting video regarding the cost; Edited by Yu Narukami, Jan 26 2017, 11:35 AM.



SpeedoTrunks	Jan 26 2017, 03:49 PM Post #20
Posts: 908 Group: Member Member #9,238 Joined: March 22, 2013 Gender Not Specified	Building a wall from coast to coast, at the height and depth needed to stop people getting over it effectivly, is going to cost 20+ billion dollars. And in what world would another country pay for it? I understand he's already said that the money would come in other forms, (most likely in import/export tax or something) but the guy has lost the plot. It's probably going to start being built, but I'd imagine it'll take years....and then be ripped down when he's done in office.



+ Pointer	Jan 26 2017, 03:57 PM Post #21
... Posts: 7,062 Group: Elite Member Member #8,812 Joined: January 5, 2013 Gender Male	Too much money would be wasted for such an idiocy Even if it builds, it would not serve so much



+ Son-Goku	Jan 26 2017, 07:25 PM Post #22
孫悟空 Posts: 13,359 Group: Elite Member Member #12,886 Joined: January 24, 2016 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime DB/DBZ/DBS, Code Geass, Gintama, YYH, Death Note, and SAO. What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fairy Tail, and Naruto.	I'm for the idea of the wall, but it doesn't seem very realistic. I don't think they'll be able to get Mexico to pay for it and there's no way we're going to pay for something that expensive. I know that he's going to try everything he can to get the wall though, I'm just not sure how he's going to go about successfully doing that.
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~~Doggo Champion 2k17~~	Jan 26 2017, 07:50 PM Post #23
Posts: 7,931 Group: GTFO Member #6,380 Joined: June 20, 2011 Country United States Favourite Anime here comes What Browser do you use? o shit waddup! Favourite Manga dat boi	I listened in on NPR the other day where they were interviewing border patrol officers, joining them on border patrol missions, etc. and the general consensus was that doing something about the border is definitely necessary, but a wall won't take care of that. There are already fences and walls in place, and what do people do? They put up ladders. They tunnel under them. One of the border patrol officers on NPR explained how terrible the policies were that they had to work with. For example, immigrants from, say, Guatemala, who are running from the mafia in their country, are let into America without much of a fight. If you have a valid reason for fleeing your country, you're actually escorted into America to stay for a period of time while filling out paperwork and such. Many of them end up staying even after being rejected because we just... let them in. They're already there; they've been let in. Border patrol is allegedly more like a welcoming party with the policies we currently have than an actual deterrent in many cases.



lazerbem	Jan 26 2017, 08:38 PM Post #24
Posts: 10,662 Group: Forum Moderator Member #10,435 Joined: November 1, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Asura's Wrath(it counts) What Browser do you use? Google Chrome	Spending all that money on better policies regarding immigration would be far more effective. Stuff like heavily penalizing businesses that exploit illegal immigrants for cheap labor, making it so you need to actually register for schooling and can't just slip by, that sort of thing. The wall is just a silly idea considering the existence of tunnels, visa overstayers, ladders, the Rio Grande, and the fact that the environment is just not conducive to it(sand dunes are going to build up next to the wall due to the sand's path on the wind being blocked). Almost anything would be a better use of money than a silly wall.
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Political Piper	Jan 26 2017, 11:59 PM Post #25
Posts: 449 Group: Member Member #13,465 Joined: August 23, 2016 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragonball Z What Browser do you use? Chrome	lazerbem Jan 26 2017, 08:38 PM Spending all that money on better policies regarding immigration would be far more effective. Stuff like heavily penalizing businesses that exploit illegal immigrants for cheap labor, making it so you need to actually register for schooling and can't just slip by, that sort of thing. The wall is just a silly idea considering the existence of tunnels, visa overstayers, ladders, the Rio Grande, and the fact that the environment is just not conducive to it(sand dunes are going to build up next to the wall due to the sand's path on the wind being blocked). Almost anything would be a better use of money than a silly wall. True. The sad thing though is that any type of policy directed toward tough border security is immediately viewed as racist. Quote: Stuff like heavily penalizing businesses that exploit illegal immigrants for cheap labor, making it so you need to actually register for schooling and can't just slip by, that sort of thing. Kates Law was shot down in the Senate which provided stricter punishments for illegals guilty of past physical transgressions. Whenever you mention the word register and illegals it's right away flagged as racist. Just like there should be voter ID laws but that is considered racist. I agree with everything you said, but the consensus of the country is that tougher immigration policy is automatically racist. So the question becomes, how can you strengthen border security, yet simultaneously not be hated by the media and various communities? Trump did stop the catch and release program, which is a good start. He also increased border patrol agents and Obama ended Wet Foot Dry Foot policy before he left, so there are changes taking place for security. It's not strictly the wall
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lazerbem	Jan 27 2017, 12:49 AM Post #26
Posts: 10,662 Group: Forum Moderator Member #10,435 Joined: November 1, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Asura's Wrath(it counts) What Browser do you use? Google Chrome	Quote: True. The sad thing though is that any type of policy directed toward tough border security is immediately viewed as racist. It's the phrasing. When you say something like "They are not our friend, believe me" and "When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists", don't you think that this sounds a bit inflammatory and being done for the wrong reasons? Regardless of the validity of the plan, when you're using this kind of justification, the idea of racism is going to get into people's heads. Don't forget that Obama was relatively hard on immigration, but didn't get jumped for it because he was a lot more careful with the phrasing and just in general had more decorum than just saying "They're criminals" Quote: o the question becomes, how can you strengthen border security, yet simultaneously not be hated by the media and various communities? Taking away the incentive might be a decent place to start. There are many agricultural businesses that get away with exploiting illegal immigrants due to lax laws on them, forming a kind of cheat. Punishing those agricultural businesses for being dishonest I don't think would bother anyone since they're pretty bad for everyone except themselves. By punishing them, the flow would be lessened since the illegals wouldn't be able to just get a job for some cheap rancher. Quote: It's not strictly the wall Spending money on those things as opposed the wall would seem like a much better use of the money. Edited by lazerbem, Jan 27 2017, 12:51 AM.
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Political Piper	Jan 27 2017, 01:30 AM Post #27
Posts: 449 Group: Member Member #13,465 Joined: August 23, 2016 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragonball Z What Browser do you use? Chrome	Lazerbem, It's not strictly Trump that sparks the racism for this view. Don't you remember Romney in 2012? He's one of the most politically correct guys out there and when he took a hard stance it was racism. The reason it wasn't racism when Obama did it is because you couldn't accuse the first black President of doing racist things. And yes, I know what I just said there. But when Romney wanted tougher borders in 2012, it was racist. When Jorge Ramos debated Sheriff Clark on Megyn Kelly, tougher immigration is racist, and Clark was black. So I like to think it's more a partisan thing. Racism is a strong ally to use to demean your political opponent. I know, I fell for it hook, line and sinker when I was 18. I fell on the Obama bandwagon like everybody else. But when I got older and started doing more research, I found that there is explicit inherent bias in the media toward anyone that poses a risk to their political ideology. Imagine if someone on the right said they thought about blowing up the White House when Obama was elected. Imagine the response... But yeah, I fear this conversation is getting off topic and I know Daemon is waiting to jump in and tell me the rules of the board again, lol.. So we'll get back to the issue at hand... No, we should not spend money on a wall. But yes, if a wall saves even one innocent life from dying either from violence or an overdose of drugs that got stopped, then the wall is a success. It's easy thinking of life and death at an external viewpoint, but it's not so easy for the families who lost their loved ones by murderers who shouldn't have been in the country to begin with.
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* Yu Narukami	Jan 27 2017, 01:33 AM Post #28
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	That's a pretty flimsy justification, in my opinion. You could apply that to anything and call it a success, regardless of the feasibility and the actual impact of it.



Political Piper	Jan 27 2017, 01:35 AM Post #29
Posts: 449 Group: Member Member #13,465 Joined: August 23, 2016 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragonball Z What Browser do you use? Chrome	Nagito Komaeda Jan 27 2017, 01:33 AM That's a pretty flimsy justification, in my opinion. You could apply that to anything and call it a success, regardless of the feasibility and the actual impact of it. I wouldn't say saving an innocent life is flimsy, in my opinion. And you're forgetting that a wall would save more than just one life. How many lives does it take to omit "flimsy" from that sentence? EDIT: I don't think having a wall that we pay for is good. But if Mexico does end up paying for the wall, which I doubt, but for the sake of argument let's say they do, and the money for preventive maintenance is also paid by Mexico, than I don't see how anyone could think that's a bad thing. How does it hurt having an extra barrier of protection at no cost to the tax payer? I guess what I'm asking is, if the wall could be implemented free from financial burden to the tax payer, would you still think it's a pointless tool to use? Edited by Political Piper, Jan 27 2017, 01:40 AM.
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* Yu Narukami	Jan 27 2017, 01:40 AM Post #30
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	Political Piper Jan 27 2017, 01:35 AM Nagito Komaeda Jan 27 2017, 01:33 AM That's a pretty flimsy justification, in my opinion. You could apply that to anything and call it a success, regardless of the feasibility and the actual impact of it. I wouldn't say saving an innocent life is flimsy, in my opinion. And you're forgetting that a wall would save more than just one life. How many lives does it take to omit "flimsy" from that sentence? But if your metric for something being successful is whether is can save even a single innocent life, where does that end? What if the wall surrounded the US completely and costed trillions of dollars? There's one huge thing you're forgetting. Why is the drug trade between the US and Mexico so big? Are drugs coming from Mexico for no reason?



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