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SSJ Blue Vegito vs Merged Zamasu
Topic Started: Jan 10 2017, 09:10 AM (3,784 Views)
Tinny
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Solid Snake
Jan 11 2017, 06:17 PM
His most powerful attack wasn't executed all the way. The Final Kamehameha isn't his most powerful attack if he was about to kill or at least attempt to kill him again. You say bring evidence? No one here can prove the Final Kamehameha is his ultimate barring videogames.
As they've already said, that's a combination of their two most powerful attacks, and Zamasu reacted just posing and calling himself a God.

Yes, I am saying to bring evidence. Now are you gonna continue dodging this, dismissing us, and repeating yourself, or are you gonna take some time out of whatever you're doing and actually talk to us? And if you can't take the time to actually talk, I have to question why you're here at all.

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If Merged Zamasu wasn't semi immortal he would have been killed by Vegito's Ki Blade. The battle wasnt fair and Vegito even had a time limit. Its like playing a dbz video game were the Enemy has very high stamina and health and you have a time limit of 60 sec

That's fair, but I do have to point out every advantage Vegetto took (as I've detailed in this thread) was swiftly taken back by Zamasu, up to and including his ultimate attack, a combination of the incredibly powerful final flash and kamehameha, Final Kamehameha, Vegetto even thought that attack would end the fight. And then there's him saying to say goodbye and failing again. He had a time limit yes, but everything he tried failed, and I don't see a reason having more time would improve his situation.
Edited by Tinny, Jan 11 2017, 07:44 PM.
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Tinny
Jan 11 2017, 07:44 PM
Solid Snake
Jan 11 2017, 06:17 PM
His most powerful attack wasn't executed all the way. The Final Kamehameha isn't his most powerful attack if he was about to kill or at least attempt to kill him again. You say bring evidence? No one here can prove the Final Kamehameha is his ultimate barring videogames.
As they've already said, that's a combination of their two most powerful attacks, and Zamasu reacted just posing and calling himself a God.

Yes, I am saying to bring evidence. Now are you gonna continue dodging this, dismissing us, and repeating yourself, or are you gonna take some time out of whatever you're doing and actually talk to us? And if you can't take the time to actually talk, I have to question why you're here at all.

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If Merged Zamasu wasn't semi immortal he would have been killed by Vegito's Ki Blade. The battle wasnt fair and Vegito even had a time limit. Its like playing a dbz video game were the Enemy has very high stamina and health and you have a time limit of 60 sec

That's fair, but I do have to point out every advantage Vegetto took (as I've detailed in this thread) was swiftly taken back by Zamasu, up to and including his ultimate attack, a combination of the incredibly powerful final flash and kamehameha, Final Kamehameha, Vegetto even thought that attack would end the fight. And then there's him saying to say goodbye and failing again. He had a time limit yes, but everything he tried failed, and I don't see a reason having more time would improve his situation.
It could also be that he was much more powerful than Vegito in his Power Stressed form but very slow like Super Saiyan Grade 3 Trunks. That combined with his semi immortality could have been the reason why he tanked it so easily.
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Obviously the actual last attack was the ki infused punch that was gonna end it, the Final Kamehameha was just to combo with after his combo string. It damaged him but Zamasu's regeneration saved him. Vegito only failed cause he underestimated Zamasu's immortality as it being gone but it actually still leaving him vast regeneration still. If he wasn't immortal his body would've been gone then and there due to the amps of both attacks.
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"I am the bone of my sword."

How would the punch end it?

But for argument sake, let's say that Vegetto was doing some combo. The moment the Final Kamehameha failed, pretty much sealed Vegetto's fate. That was the attack that Vegetto put the most energy in, the one that was supposed to get the damage done for this so called "Combo." However since the Final Kamehameha failed to inflict the lasting damage to end things, anything else Vegetto throws out is kind of moot.

Because that punch isn't going to have the same power as the Final Kamehameha.
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That punch was obviously an invisible Dragon Fist. =]
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Tinny
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'Saved him?' What's with the downplay here? It let him pop right out fresh as a daisy assuming Zamasu didn't outright tank it Nappa style (you can't prove that wasn't what happened, while I can at least provide some evidence as I have in the past, and frankly if you don't remember, then you don't remember every conversation we've had on that).

By the way it still failed. So Vegetto still loses. And you cannot prove he had any super special move afterwords to use either, no matter how much you repeat yourself, no matter how much you want it to be, no matter how much you pretend it's the case, you cannot prove it, if you could, you would have by now in the countless discussions revolving around this topic.
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It could also be that he was much more powerful than Vegito in his Power Stressed form but very slow like Super Saiyan Grade 3 Trunks. That combined with his semi immortality could have been the reason why he tanked it so easily.

I believe that's actually the case, or rather, I think Zamasu was about on par to slightly more powerful as normal, and then in his giant form he became slower, but much more tough, as shown by Zamasu tanking a final kamehameha (or "regenerating" from it). In any case, it does leave Vegetto with no real options considering all he could afterwords was try to punch him, which also failed. Zamasu's loadout is simply too much for even the legendary fusion to defeat.
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That punch was obviously an invisible Dragon Fist. =]

Naw, that's obviously what was coming afterwords in the 3 part combo that's totally three parts because I said so. In fact Vegetto defused on purpose, figuring Trunks would use the spirit sword technique if he had to and that Trunks should get the honor, he just didn't count on Zamasu sky happening. Because Vegetto is always stronger, he has to be stronger, he's Vegetto. Dragon Ball would never make Vegetto weaker than someone, he's Vegetto, he's always stronger.

I honestly do feel like that's how far too many people see Vegetto, not as a real character but just a concept of being overwhelmingly power, even though that's been taken up by Beerus, Whis, and Zeno for the most part.
Edited by Tinny, Jan 11 2017, 08:55 PM.
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Tinny
Jan 11 2017, 08:50 PM
@solid snake
'Saved him?' What's with the downplay here? It let him pop right out fresh as a daisy assuming Zamasu didn't outright tank it Nappa style (you can't prove that wasn't what happened, while I can at least provide some evidence as I have in the past, and frankly if you don't remember, then you don't remember every conversation we've had on that).

By the way it still failed. So Vegetto still loses. And you cannot prove he had any super special move afterwords to use either, no matter how much you repeat yourself, no matter how much you want it to be, no matter how much you pretend it's the case, you cannot prove it, if you could, you would have by now in the countless discussions revolving around this topic.
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It could also be that he was much more powerful than Vegito in his Power Stressed form but very slow like Super Saiyan Grade 3 Trunks. That combined with his semi immortality could have been the reason why he tanked it so easily.

I believe that's actually the case, or rather, I think Zamasu was about on par to slightly more powerful as normal, and then in his giant form he became slower, but much more tough, as shown by Zamasu tanking a final kamehameha (or "regenerating" from it). In any case, it does leave Vegetto with no real options considering all he could afterwords was try to punch him, which also failed. Zamasu's loadout is simply too much for even the legendary fusion to defeat.
I can provide evidence, the guy healed and regenerated repeatedly after a fatal injury. The Final Kamehameha got at him but it didn't matter since he regenerated from it near instantly.

The Final Kamehameha failed but that doesn't mean the other would've failed the same. All you guys saying that attack is his best didn't prove it yet, those are his fusee's best attacks. Its natural for him to combine em and make em his signature attack, but the fact he did one last attack and declared it would end it, means he had one last one play but he defused so it wasn't executed all the way.
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Tinny
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Solid Snake
Jan 11 2017, 08:57 PM
Tinny
Jan 11 2017, 08:50 PM
@solid snake
'Saved him?' What's with the downplay here? It let him pop right out fresh as a daisy assuming Zamasu didn't outright tank it Nappa style (you can't prove that wasn't what happened, while I can at least provide some evidence as I have in the past, and frankly if you don't remember, then you don't remember every conversation we've had on that).

By the way it still failed. So Vegetto still loses. And you cannot prove he had any super special move afterwords to use either, no matter how much you repeat yourself, no matter how much you want it to be, no matter how much you pretend it's the case, you cannot prove it, if you could, you would have by now in the countless discussions revolving around this topic.
Quote:
 
It could also be that he was much more powerful than Vegito in his Power Stressed form but very slow like Super Saiyan Grade 3 Trunks. That combined with his semi immortality could have been the reason why he tanked it so easily.

I believe that's actually the case, or rather, I think Zamasu was about on par to slightly more powerful as normal, and then in his giant form he became slower, but much more tough, as shown by Zamasu tanking a final kamehameha (or "regenerating" from it). In any case, it does leave Vegetto with no real options considering all he could afterwords was try to punch him, which also failed. Zamasu's loadout is simply too much for even the legendary fusion to defeat.
I can provide evidence, the guy healed and regenerated repeatedly after a fatal injury. The Final Kamehameha got at him but it didn't matter since he regenerated from it near instantly.

The Final Kamehameha failed but that doesn't mean the other would've failed the same. All you guys saying that attack is his best didn't prove it yet, those are his fusee's best attacks. Its natural for him to combine em and make em his signature attack, but the fact he did one last attack and declared it would end it, means he had one last one play but he defused so it wasn't executed all the way.
He reacted quite differently that time. I said to give me evidence and you gave me a cut up statement excluding everything about it that didn't conveniently fit your story. The ki blade and Trunks's own attacks both showcase that he reacts. Now where's the evidence? Real evidence, not this lie by omission nonsense.

It did fail. Past tense. Otherwise Zamasu would be dead or zamasu sky. Also he said it was the end twice, that devalues that declaration a bit when the previous one immediately failed. And the last one also immediately failed.

Once again, do you have any evidence aside from out of context sentences? The only way anyone could agree with your reasoning if they didn't watch the episode. You presumably watched the episode, so what's going on here?
Edited by Tinny, Jan 11 2017, 09:09 PM.
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The guy regenerated, Vegito's ki saber impaled him but his Final Kamehameha is stronger and more potent given that he tried to use it at the end of his combo. He definitely regenerated due to when a damaging strike is landed he heals.

It doesn't devalues anything, he underestimated Zamasu's immortality that left him regeneration and attempted his actual finisher but he defused.

I watched the episode, and I went over the portion after Zamasu uses the Light of Justice too again, and he actually did matched Zamasu's right arm while he was power stressed. Basically, Zamasu's op right arm was matched by Vegito.
Edited by Solid Snake, Jan 11 2017, 09:37 PM.
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Solid Snake
Jan 11 2017, 09:36 PM
The guy regenerated, Vegito's ki saber impaled him but his Final Kamehameha is stronger and more potent given that he tried to use it at the end of his combo. He definitely regenerated due to when a damaging strike is landed he heals.

It doesn't devalues anything, he underestimated Zamasu's immortality that left him regeneration and attempted his actual finisher but he defused.

I watched the episode, and I went over the portion after Zamasu uses the Light of Justice too again, and he actually did matched Zamasu's right arm while he was power stressed. Basically, Zamasu's op right arm was matched by Vegito.
He also reacted to pain. He doesn't react to the final kamehameha. Stop trying to pass a lie of omission as totally fact.

Prove that his "actual finisher" was going to be attempted at all. Then prove it was going to work. No, saying your position again doesn't count.

You clearly haven't watched it if you believe that is true, and that this is at at all a full view of the fight. You say you have, so why are you saying this? We've been over this before, exercise your memory or barring that, look directly at the past threads concerning all these types of topics.

Having the last word isn't going to decide an argument, evidence will, and you haven't provided anything of that nature. Only lies of omission, out of context statements, and vague "probably" statements that at best, only provide an alternative, without explaining why it's more likely than the position with the most (meaning actual) evidence behind it.
Edited by Tinny, Jan 11 2017, 10:33 PM.
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Even if he did react, we wouldn't hear it if he grunts normally. Besides the explosion can masked his voice.

It was attempted, he gathered his God ki in his fist and was in the middle of punching Zamasu before the fusion broke apart. During that time, he says he'll end it or whatever too, indicating this move is bring about a conclusion akin to his he thought the Final Kamehameha was going to do.

Nah, Vegito clashed fists with Zamasu again after the latter was power stressed and unlike the first time, Zamasu didn't knock him off balance. Physically, they were even.

This isn't about having the last word, this is about debunking the stupidity of Vegito being weaker then Zamasu when the fight proved otherwise. You wanna tell me I haven't watched when you have yet to look beyond were Vegito failed. Zamasu landed one blow that down Vegito (this first clash has them even till Zamasu broke Vegito's balance), and what happens after that? Vegito counters Zamasu's God Fierce Slice with his ki saber with a smile, not even bothered by his punch earlier. Zamasu kicked Vegito in the stomach and attempted to use the force of his blow to hit Vegito and he manages to dodge it without sign of being staggered. Vegito questioned if that's all the power of a God pinning Zamasu, who was unable to free himself till he used some explosive wave thingy that only blew back Vegito who easily recovered. As soon as he becomes power stressed he and Vegito's first interactions was another fist collusion that was even straight out this time. Later it has Zamasu stressed and on the defensive so bad due to Vegito's offense he can't even attack and the simple fact he's opting to block instead of tank implicates Vegito's punches are capable of inflicting damage. He tries to cut Vegito down via interrupting Vegito's attacks, and gets countered with a crushing right knee strike to his jaw, left punch in the gut, another right kick that sent him cratering into a nearby building and that leading to a Final Kamehameha. Underneath this smoke, he regenerates and ascends beyond the debris and Vegito Instant Transmissions up above and prepares another attack coating his fist in God ki and mid-way punches him but he defuses, giving Zamasu time to recover from it staggered a bit judging the split to the time the Kaioshins were talking, with his face sizzling.

You know looking at it, this could be a potent punch if you look at Kid Goku's fight with King Piccolo, where he punches through him using the last of his strength to kill King Piccolo. This could've easily been the same situation too as opposed to it straight out failing. Instead of saying it wouldn't be possible, this could be a potential outcome instead of blindly saying t couldn't do anything when the past shows otherwise.

Edit: Anywho, Vegito wasn't really hurt from nothing Zamasu did other then having dirt on him.
Edited by Solid Snake, Jan 12 2017, 12:27 AM.
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Jan 12 2017, 12:26 AM
Even if he did react, we wouldn't hear it if he grunts normally. Besides the explosion can masked his voice.

It was attempted, he gathered his God ki in his fist and was in the middle of punching Zamasu before the fusion broke apart. During that time, he says he'll end it or whatever too, indicating this move is bring about a conclusion akin to his he thought the Final Kamehameha was going to do.

Nah, Vegito clashed fists with Zamasu again after the latter was power stressed and unlike the first time, Zamasu didn't knock him off balance. Physically, they were even.

This isn't about having the last word, this is about debunking the stupidity of Vegito being weaker then Zamasu when the fight proved otherwise. You wanna tell me I haven't watched when you have yet to look beyond were Vegito failed. Zamasu landed one blow that down Vegito (this first clash has them even till Zamasu broke Vegito's balance), and what happens after that? Vegito counters Zamasu's God Fierce Slice with his ki saber with a smile, not even bothered by his punch earlier. Zamasu kicked Vegito in the stomach and attempted to use the force of his blow to hit Vegito and he manages to dodge it without sign of being staggered. Vegito questioned if that's all the power of a God pinning Zamasu, who was unable to free himself till he used some explosive wave thingy that only blew back Vegito who easily recovered. As soon as he becomes power stressed he and Vegito's first interactions was another fist collusion that was even straight out this time. Later it has Zamasu stressed and on the defensive so bad due to Vegito's offense he can't even attack and the simple fact he's opting to block instead of tank implicates Vegito's punches are capable of inflicting damage. He tries to cut Vegito down via interrupting Vegito's attacks, and gets countered with a crushing right knee strike to his jaw, left punch in the gut, another right kick that sent him cratering into a nearby building and that leading to a Final Kamehameha. Underneath this smoke, he regenerates and ascends beyond the debris and Vegito Instant Transmissions up above and prepares another attack coating his fist in God ki and mid-way punches him but he defuses, giving Zamasu time to recover from it staggered a bit judging the split to the time the Kaioshins were talking, with his face sizzling.

You know looking at it, this could be a potent punch if you look at Kid Goku's fight with King Piccolo, where he punches through him using the last of his strength to kill King Piccolo. This could've easily been the same situation too as opposed to it straight out failing. Instead of saying it wouldn't be possible, this could be a potential outcome instead of blindly saying t couldn't do anything when the past shows otherwise.

Edit: Anywho, Vegito wasn't really hurt from nothing Zamasu did other then having dirt on him.

TL;DR

You are wrong and lack evidence to back up your claims. Now with the part of the post for anyone who's interested to read.


You've given a vague "probably" without showing why it's more likely, and once again, if we assume that did happen, it still results in the same problem you keep trying to avoid, Vegetto can't defeat Zamasu.

Both failed to end it, or are you saying that punching him wasn't the issue? Was he going to use Stardust Breaker or some other move then? Show me the evidence, the evidence you keep not showing.

Which is why Vegetto got overpowered and punched in the stomach right? Once again, did you watch the episode?

This very clearly is, this argument is substantiated by nothing nearing the realm of evidence, the best you've been able to show is an possible alternative, not a more likely one in any sense of the word. You haven't debunked anything, even assuming what you're saying is true, it's only by coincidence, and it's becoming clear that if Vegetto is stronger, someone else will need to explain it, since you seem either uninterested in or unable to, argue the point with facts, evidence, and honesty. Instead you use lies of omission, instead you use this ridiculous assertion that because it's technically possible, means it's the only possibility, which again, at best puts it equal, and that's with this fallacious argument you've made. But fine, let's go down the list. Let's review the entire fight. Again. This more for anyone reading at this point, you've already chosen what to believe and won't brook any disagreement as being valid.


Vegetto attacks Zamasu and knocks him away while he has his guard down, I would like to point out when Goku got sneak attacked by a likely namek level laser (go ahead, try to believe that Sorbet's laser would take down even Buu tier opponents, and yet was never used, you could probably still justify it, but at best it'd be headcanon to avoid going with the canonical explanation). In response Zamasu punches at them with his purple arm you keep saying is totally OP. Vegetto then has a scared or at least startled experession and has to dodge the air waves from the attack.

Advantage: Zamasu.

Zamasu then attacks Vegetto who is blocking, and pushes him through half the city.

Advantage: Zamasu.

Vegetto then disengages (we don't see how, I"m sure you'll say Vegetto pinky flicked Zamasu, but Occam's razor states that we should probably start with the simplest explanation and go from there), likely via flying away or in some way retreating to get his bearings. they clash. It ends with Vegetto kicking Zamasu in the face before Zamasu upper cuts, misses, and then kicks Vegetto far away. Vegetto flew farther when kicked than Zamasu did I'd like to note.

Advantage: Zamasu.

Zamasu then attacks with his purple arm, creating airwaves Vegetto has to dodge. Once again, the fact that Vegetto has to dodge is clear.

Advantage: Zamasu.

Vegetto then kicks Zamasu which he blocks with his purple arm, Vegetto flies away.

Advantage: No one, Zamasu never got a chance to respond, but for your sake, let's assume this goes to Vegetto.

Vegetto then uses a flurry of kicks which Zamasu dodges, before then catching Zamasu from behind, grabbing Zamasu's head, and pushing him to the ground.

Advantage: Again, Zamasu didn't have a chance to counter attack, but let's give this to Vegetto.

Vegetto then restrains Vegetto's SUPER OVERPOWERED PURPLE ARM OF AIR WAVES THAT CAN KILL VEGETTO, while insulting him before Zamasu releases an energy blast from his eye that casuses Vegetto to make an oh s*** face, and retreats only to get blasted away anyways, though he manages to land on his feet.

Advantage: Zamasu, Also that OP purple arm thing is completely false. You'd know this if you watched and acknowledged the episode.

They have that fist clash. This lasts for a few seconds with them both screaming and having angry faces. Zamasu in the end forces Vegetto's hand down and uppercuts him in the stomach with said "OP purple arm" causing spit or blood to fall out of Vegetto's mouth and him to fly a bit away. Zamasu then casually uppercuts him judging from his posture in the immediate next shot.

Advantage: Zamasu, anyone saying otherwise is lying or wrong.

Zamasu walks over to execute Vegetto with his ki blade. Vegetto then suprise stabs Zamasu with his own ki blade. Vegetto is in pain judging from his expression and reaction. He's also angered by this as well. They then talk a bit.

Advantage: Vegetto, Technically Zamasu didn't get to respond, but his ki blade is shorter, so screw it, Vegetto has the advantage. Mind you I'm being nice here by giving Vegetto a point at all. Because the next event is...

Zamasu powers up and disintigrates Vegetto's ki blade.

Advantage: Zamasu, it's so obviously Zamasu's advantage.

He then powers up and grows even larger. Vegetto specifies Zamasu's power can't keep up with his speed, Zamasu likely had a super mode similar to Trunk's Ultra saiyan, but whatever let's ignore that for now. Zamasu tries to respond but Vegetto dodges and kicks Zamasu into a wall.

Advantage: Vegetto.

Vegetto uses a combination of their counter parts most powerful move, creating Final Kamehameha. It hits Zamasu dead on (and don't give me that "It might have missed" story, we both know they would have said something or in some way shown it for dramatic effect if his greatest attack MISSED), and regardless of if he tanks it or regenerates it, he flies up into the air in a christ pose proclaiming himself a god.

Advantage: Do I even need to- yes I do, Zamasu has the advantage because FKHH did nothing.

Vegetto immediately IT's up to Zamasu and punches him, at which point he defuses. I've already shown what Zamasu looks like after word and what his normal reaction to pain is. He's even smiling.

Advantage: Despite what certain people will say, Zamasu has the advantage. His sizzling face is certainly something that hurts, but clearly not as much as that ki blade, or Trunks's own blade.

So let's tally this up. Who maintained the advantage?

Vegetto:4, and mind you That's only because I was nice, it's more like 1 to be perfectly blunt.
Zamasu:9

There's your fight. None of this revisionism you keep spouting. No amount of propaganda like interpretation of this fight can change the facts, no matter how much you wish it to be. This is very clearly about the last word, you clearly have not shown anything here except your own stubbornness and unwillingness to accept the facts.

Could be? COULD BE!? You're talking about COULD BES? Zamasu could have been more powerful than Zeno and just faking it to teach everyone a lesson, he could be the grand priest, he could be Evil alternate universe Superman- he could be anything. I don't want what he could be, I want what he is, I want evidence, I want facts, and you don't want to give that, you give revisionism, you give lies of omission, you exclude context, you keep adding adjectives as if they show the TRUTH of the matter. Except it's not a truth, it's a lie made to soften your own ego which you've clearly connected to Vegetto for some completely insane reason. Maybe you actually believe it, but you've only lied to yourself on this, I don't usually say it this bluntly, but you have deceived yourself into thinking this. And now you're spreading this mistruth to everyone else.

You want me to say it's possible? Fine. It's possible. Now prove it. Because you haven't done any of that. you've given alternate interpretations to a scene that lacks the evidence behind it. To put it another way, you're saying the Earth is flat. It's possible, but it doesn't have the most evidence, it only has justifications. And at this point, I'm only arguing for anyone reading this so they don't get the wrong idea and start thinking the Earth is flat. That was a metaphor and comparison by the way.

And that one is just plain wrong. "Tanking" attacks and not getting hurt doesn't look like that, we both know this.

At this point, short of calling me a liar, I'm not sure where this is gonna go at this point. But at this point this isn't about just you anymore, you won't change your mind, you're not open to the possibility. At this point, I'm only arguing so others can see and hopefully draw a conclusion using logic and facts.
Edited by Tinny, Jan 12 2017, 01:49 AM.
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Tinny
Jan 12 2017, 01:20 AM
Solid Snake
Jan 12 2017, 12:26 AM
Even if he did react, we wouldn't hear it if he grunts normally. Besides the explosion can masked his voice.

It was attempted, he gathered his God ki in his fist and was in the middle of punching Zamasu before the fusion broke apart. During that time, he says he'll end it or whatever too, indicating this move is bring about a conclusion akin to his he thought the Final Kamehameha was going to do.

Nah, Vegito clashed fists with Zamasu again after the latter was power stressed and unlike the first time, Zamasu didn't knock him off balance. Physically, they were even.

This isn't about having the last word, this is about debunking the stupidity of Vegito being weaker then Zamasu when the fight proved otherwise. You wanna tell me I haven't watched when you have yet to look beyond were Vegito failed. Zamasu landed one blow that down Vegito (this first clash has them even till Zamasu broke Vegito's balance), and what happens after that? Vegito counters Zamasu's God Fierce Slice with his ki saber with a smile, not even bothered by his punch earlier. Zamasu kicked Vegito in the stomach and attempted to use the force of his blow to hit Vegito and he manages to dodge it without sign of being staggered. Vegito questioned if that's all the power of a God pinning Zamasu, who was unable to free himself till he used some explosive wave thingy that only blew back Vegito who easily recovered. As soon as he becomes power stressed he and Vegito's first interactions was another fist collusion that was even straight out this time. Later it has Zamasu stressed and on the defensive so bad due to Vegito's offense he can't even attack and the simple fact he's opting to block instead of tank implicates Vegito's punches are capable of inflicting damage. He tries to cut Vegito down via interrupting Vegito's attacks, and gets countered with a crushing right knee strike to his jaw, left punch in the gut, another right kick that sent him cratering into a nearby building and that leading to a Final Kamehameha. Underneath this smoke, he regenerates and ascends beyond the debris and Vegito Instant Transmissions up above and prepares another attack coating his fist in God ki and mid-way punches him but he defuses, giving Zamasu time to recover from it staggered a bit judging the split to the time the Kaioshins were talking, with his face sizzling.

You know looking at it, this could be a potent punch if you look at Kid Goku's fight with King Piccolo, where he punches through him using the last of his strength to kill King Piccolo. This could've easily been the same situation too as opposed to it straight out failing. Instead of saying it wouldn't be possible, this could be a potential outcome instead of blindly saying t couldn't do anything when the past shows otherwise.

Edit: Anywho, Vegito wasn't really hurt from nothing Zamasu did other then having dirt on him.

TL;DR

You are wrong and lack evidence to back up your claims. Now with the part of the post for anyone who's interested to read.


You've given a vague "probably" without showing why it's more likely, and once again, if we assume that did happen, it still results in the same problem you keep trying to avoid, Vegetto can't defeat Zamasu.

Both failed to end it, or are you saying that punching him wasn't the issue? Was he going to use Stardust Breaker or some other move then? Show me the evidence, the evidence you keep not showing.

Which is why Vegetto got overpowered and punched in the stomach right? Once again, did you watch the episode?

This very clearly is, this argument is substantiated by nothing nearing the realm of evidence, the best you've been able to show is an possible alternative, not a more likely one in any sense of the word. You haven't debunked anything, even assuming what you're saying is true, it's only by coincidence, and it's becoming clear that if Vegetto is stronger, someone else will need to explain it, since you seem either uninterested in or unable to, argue the point with facts, evidence, and honesty. Instead you use lies of omission, instead you use this ridiculous assertion that because it's technically possible, means it's the only possibility, which again, at best puts it equal, and that's with this fallacious argument you've made. But fine, let's go down the list. Let's review the entire fight. Again. This more for anyone reading at this point, you've already chosen what to believe and won't brook any disagreement as being valid.


Vegetto attacks Zamasu and knocks him away while he has his guard down, I would like to point out when Goku got sneak attacked by a likely namek level laser (go ahead, try to believe that Sorbet's laser would take down even Buu tier opponents, and yet was never used, you could probably still justify it, but at best it'd be headcanon to avoid going with the canonical explanation). In response Zamasu punches at them with his purple arm you keep saying is totally OP. Vegetto then has a scared or at least startled experession and has to dodge the air waves from the attack.

Advantage: Zamasu.

Zamasu then attacks Vegetto who is blocking, and pushes him through half the city.

Advantage: Zamasu.

Vegetto then disengages (we don't see how, I"m sure you'll say Vegetto pinky flicked Zamasu, but Occam's razor states that we should probably start with the simplest explanation and go from there), likely via flying away or in some way retreating to get his bearings. they clash. It ends with Vegetto kicking Zamasu in the face before Zamasu upper cuts, misses, and then kicks Vegetto far away. Vegetto flew farther when kicked than Zamasu did I'd like to note.

Advantage: Zamasu.

Zamasu then attacks with his purple arm, creating airwaves Vegetto has to dodge. Once again, the fact that Vegetto has to dodge is clear.

Advantage: Zamasu.

Vegetto then kicks Zamasu which he blocks with his purple arm, Vegetto flies away.

Advantage: No one, Zamasu never got a chance to respond, but for your sake, let's assume this goes to Vegetto.

Vegetto then uses a flurry of kicks which Zamasu dodges, before then catching Zamasu from behind, grabbing Zamasu's head, and pushing him to the ground.

Advantage: Again, Zamasu didn't have a chance to counter attack, but let's give this to Vegetto.

Vegetto then restrains Vegetto's SUPER OVERPOWERED PURPLE ARM OF AIR WAVES THAT CAN KILL VEGETTO, while insulting him before Zamasu releases an energy blast from his eye that casuses Vegetto to make an oh s*** face, and retreats only to get blasted away anyways, though he manages to land on his feet.

Advantage: Zamasu, Also that OP purple arm thing is completely false. You'd know this if you watched and acknowledged the episode.

They have that fist clash. This lasts for a few seconds with them both screaming and having angry faces. Zamasu in the end forces Vegetto's hand down and uppercuts him in the stomach with said "OP purple arm" causing spit or blood to fall out of Vegetto's mouth and him to fly a bit away. Zamasu then casually uppercuts him judging from his posture in the immediate next shot.

Advantage: Zamasu, anyone saying otherwise is lying or wrong.

Zamasu walks over to execute Vegetto with his ki blade. Vegetto then suprise stabs Zamasu with his own ki blade. Vegetto is in pain judging from his expression and reaction. He's also angered by this as well. They then talk a bit.

Advantage: Vegetto, Technically Zamasu didn't get to respond, but his ki blade is shorter, so screw it, Vegetto has the advantage. Mind you I'm being nice here by giving Vegetto a point at all. Because the next event is...

Zamasu powers up and disintigrates Vegetto's ki blade.

Advantage: Zamasu, it's so obviously Zamasu's advantage.

He then powers up and grows even larger. Vegetto specifies Zamasu's power can't keep up with his speed, Zamasu likely had a super mode similar to Trunk's Ultra saiyan, but whatever let's ignore that for now. Zamasu tries to respond but Vegetto dodges and kicks Zamasu into a wall.

Advantage: Vegetto.

Vegetto uses a combination of their counter parts most powerful move, creating Final Kamehameha. It hits Zamasu dead on (and don't give me that "It might have missed" story, we both know they would have said something or in some way shown it for dramatic effect if his greatest attack MISSED), and regardless of if he tanks it or regenerates it, he flies up into the air in a christ pose proclaiming himself a god.

Advantage: Do I even need to- yes I do, Zamasu has the advantage because FKHH did nothing.

Vegetto immediately IT's up to Zamasu and punches him, at which point he defuses. I've already shown what Zamasu looks like after word and what his normal reaction to pain is. He's even smiling.

Advantage: Despite what certain people will say, Zamasu has the advantage. His sizzling face is certainly something that hurts, but clearly not as much as that ki blade, or Trunks's own blade.

So let's tally this up. Who maintained the advantage?

Vegetto:4, and mind you That's only because I was nice, it's more like 1 to be perfectly blunt.
Zamasu:9

There's your fight. None of this revisionism you keep spouting. No amount of propaganda like interpretation of this fight can change the facts, no matter how much you wish it to be. This is very clearly about the last word, you clearly have not shown anything here except your own stubbornness and unwillingness to accept the facts.

Could be? COULD BE!? You're talking about COULD BES? Zamasu could have been more powerful than Zeno and just faking it to teach everyone a lesson, he could be the grand priest, he could be Evil alternate universe Superman- he could be anything. I don't want what he could be, I want what he is, I want evidence, I want facts, and you don't want to give that, you give revisionism, you give lies of omission, you exclude context, you keep adding adjectives as if they show the TRUTH of the matter. Except it's not a truth, it's a lie made to soften your own ego which you've clearly connected to Vegetto for some completely insane reason. Maybe you actually believe it, but you've only lied to yourself on this, I don't usually say it this bluntly, but you have deceived yourself into thinking this. And now you're spreading this mistruth to everyone else.

You want me to say it's possible? Fine. It's possible. Now prove it. Because you haven't done any of that. you've given alternate interpretations to a scene that lacks the evidence behind it. To put it another way, you're saying the Earth is flat. It's possible, but it doesn't have the most evidence, it only has justifications. And at this point, I'm only arguing for anyone reading this so they don't get the wrong idea and start thinking the Earth is flat. That was a metaphor and comparison by the way.

And that one is just plain wrong. "Tanking" attacks and not getting hurt doesn't look like that, we both know this.

At this point, short of calling me a liar, I'm not sure where this is gonna go at this point. But at this point this isn't about just you anymore, you won't change your mind, you're not open to the possibility. At this point, I'm only arguing so others can see and hopefully draw a conclusion using logic and facts.
You're being bias and you ignored some of the key points of my posts. You exaggerated Vegito to being in pain when clearly he isn't. Your whole little post is just a lie on how it went down. The things Zamasu did, didn't even hurt Vegito.

Vegito was on the offensive not Zamasu.

Edit: Anyone who thinks Zamasu was "winning" needs to rewatch the entire fight again till they understand that the ONLY little thing that hints at Zamasu being stronger is the Final Kamehameha scene. Everything other then that hints at nothing regarding Zamasu's "superiority" .
Edited by Solid Snake, Jan 12 2017, 02:01 AM.
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Solid Snake
Jan 12 2017, 01:53 AM
Tinny
Jan 12 2017, 01:20 AM
Solid Snake
Jan 12 2017, 12:26 AM
Even if he did react, we wouldn't hear it if he grunts normally. Besides the explosion can masked his voice.

It was attempted, he gathered his God ki in his fist and was in the middle of punching Zamasu before the fusion broke apart. During that time, he says he'll end it or whatever too, indicating this move is bring about a conclusion akin to his he thought the Final Kamehameha was going to do.

Nah, Vegito clashed fists with Zamasu again after the latter was power stressed and unlike the first time, Zamasu didn't knock him off balance. Physically, they were even.

This isn't about having the last word, this is about debunking the stupidity of Vegito being weaker then Zamasu when the fight proved otherwise. You wanna tell me I haven't watched when you have yet to look beyond were Vegito failed. Zamasu landed one blow that down Vegito (this first clash has them even till Zamasu broke Vegito's balance), and what happens after that? Vegito counters Zamasu's God Fierce Slice with his ki saber with a smile, not even bothered by his punch earlier. Zamasu kicked Vegito in the stomach and attempted to use the force of his blow to hit Vegito and he manages to dodge it without sign of being staggered. Vegito questioned if that's all the power of a God pinning Zamasu, who was unable to free himself till he used some explosive wave thingy that only blew back Vegito who easily recovered. As soon as he becomes power stressed he and Vegito's first interactions was another fist collusion that was even straight out this time. Later it has Zamasu stressed and on the defensive so bad due to Vegito's offense he can't even attack and the simple fact he's opting to block instead of tank implicates Vegito's punches are capable of inflicting damage. He tries to cut Vegito down via interrupting Vegito's attacks, and gets countered with a crushing right knee strike to his jaw, left punch in the gut, another right kick that sent him cratering into a nearby building and that leading to a Final Kamehameha. Underneath this smoke, he regenerates and ascends beyond the debris and Vegito Instant Transmissions up above and prepares another attack coating his fist in God ki and mid-way punches him but he defuses, giving Zamasu time to recover from it staggered a bit judging the split to the time the Kaioshins were talking, with his face sizzling.

You know looking at it, this could be a potent punch if you look at Kid Goku's fight with King Piccolo, where he punches through him using the last of his strength to kill King Piccolo. This could've easily been the same situation too as opposed to it straight out failing. Instead of saying it wouldn't be possible, this could be a potential outcome instead of blindly saying t couldn't do anything when the past shows otherwise.

Edit: Anywho, Vegito wasn't really hurt from nothing Zamasu did other then having dirt on him.

TL;DR

You are wrong and lack evidence to back up your claims. Now with the part of the post for anyone who's interested to read.


You've given a vague "probably" without showing why it's more likely, and once again, if we assume that did happen, it still results in the same problem you keep trying to avoid, Vegetto can't defeat Zamasu.

Both failed to end it, or are you saying that punching him wasn't the issue? Was he going to use Stardust Breaker or some other move then? Show me the evidence, the evidence you keep not showing.

Which is why Vegetto got overpowered and punched in the stomach right? Once again, did you watch the episode?

This very clearly is, this argument is substantiated by nothing nearing the realm of evidence, the best you've been able to show is an possible alternative, not a more likely one in any sense of the word. You haven't debunked anything, even assuming what you're saying is true, it's only by coincidence, and it's becoming clear that if Vegetto is stronger, someone else will need to explain it, since you seem either uninterested in or unable to, argue the point with facts, evidence, and honesty. Instead you use lies of omission, instead you use this ridiculous assertion that because it's technically possible, means it's the only possibility, which again, at best puts it equal, and that's with this fallacious argument you've made. But fine, let's go down the list. Let's review the entire fight. Again. This more for anyone reading at this point, you've already chosen what to believe and won't brook any disagreement as being valid.


Vegetto attacks Zamasu and knocks him away while he has his guard down, I would like to point out when Goku got sneak attacked by a likely namek level laser (go ahead, try to believe that Sorbet's laser would take down even Buu tier opponents, and yet was never used, you could probably still justify it, but at best it'd be headcanon to avoid going with the canonical explanation). In response Zamasu punches at them with his purple arm you keep saying is totally OP. Vegetto then has a scared or at least startled experession and has to dodge the air waves from the attack.

Advantage: Zamasu.

Zamasu then attacks Vegetto who is blocking, and pushes him through half the city.

Advantage: Zamasu.

Vegetto then disengages (we don't see how, I"m sure you'll say Vegetto pinky flicked Zamasu, but Occam's razor states that we should probably start with the simplest explanation and go from there), likely via flying away or in some way retreating to get his bearings. they clash. It ends with Vegetto kicking Zamasu in the face before Zamasu upper cuts, misses, and then kicks Vegetto far away. Vegetto flew farther when kicked than Zamasu did I'd like to note.

Advantage: Zamasu.

Zamasu then attacks with his purple arm, creating airwaves Vegetto has to dodge. Once again, the fact that Vegetto has to dodge is clear.

Advantage: Zamasu.

Vegetto then kicks Zamasu which he blocks with his purple arm, Vegetto flies away.

Advantage: No one, Zamasu never got a chance to respond, but for your sake, let's assume this goes to Vegetto.

Vegetto then uses a flurry of kicks which Zamasu dodges, before then catching Zamasu from behind, grabbing Zamasu's head, and pushing him to the ground.

Advantage: Again, Zamasu didn't have a chance to counter attack, but let's give this to Vegetto.

Vegetto then restrains Vegetto's SUPER OVERPOWERED PURPLE ARM OF AIR WAVES THAT CAN KILL VEGETTO, while insulting him before Zamasu releases an energy blast from his eye that casuses Vegetto to make an oh s*** face, and retreats only to get blasted away anyways, though he manages to land on his feet.

Advantage: Zamasu, Also that OP purple arm thing is completely false. You'd know this if you watched and acknowledged the episode.

They have that fist clash. This lasts for a few seconds with them both screaming and having angry faces. Zamasu in the end forces Vegetto's hand down and uppercuts him in the stomach with said "OP purple arm" causing spit or blood to fall out of Vegetto's mouth and him to fly a bit away. Zamasu then casually uppercuts him judging from his posture in the immediate next shot.

Advantage: Zamasu, anyone saying otherwise is lying or wrong.

Zamasu walks over to execute Vegetto with his ki blade. Vegetto then suprise stabs Zamasu with his own ki blade. Vegetto is in pain judging from his expression and reaction. He's also angered by this as well. They then talk a bit.

Advantage: Vegetto, Technically Zamasu didn't get to respond, but his ki blade is shorter, so screw it, Vegetto has the advantage. Mind you I'm being nice here by giving Vegetto a point at all. Because the next event is...

Zamasu powers up and disintigrates Vegetto's ki blade.

Advantage: Zamasu, it's so obviously Zamasu's advantage.

He then powers up and grows even larger. Vegetto specifies Zamasu's power can't keep up with his speed, Zamasu likely had a super mode similar to Trunk's Ultra saiyan, but whatever let's ignore that for now. Zamasu tries to respond but Vegetto dodges and kicks Zamasu into a wall.

Advantage: Vegetto.

Vegetto uses a combination of their counter parts most powerful move, creating Final Kamehameha. It hits Zamasu dead on (and don't give me that "It might have missed" story, we both know they would have said something or in some way shown it for dramatic effect if his greatest attack MISSED), and regardless of if he tanks it or regenerates it, he flies up into the air in a christ pose proclaiming himself a god.

Advantage: Do I even need to- yes I do, Zamasu has the advantage because FKHH did nothing.

Vegetto immediately IT's up to Zamasu and punches him, at which point he defuses. I've already shown what Zamasu looks like after word and what his normal reaction to pain is. He's even smiling.

Advantage: Despite what certain people will say, Zamasu has the advantage. His sizzling face is certainly something that hurts, but clearly not as much as that ki blade, or Trunks's own blade.

So let's tally this up. Who maintained the advantage?

Vegetto:4, and mind you That's only because I was nice, it's more like 1 to be perfectly blunt.
Zamasu:9

There's your fight. None of this revisionism you keep spouting. No amount of propaganda like interpretation of this fight can change the facts, no matter how much you wish it to be. This is very clearly about the last word, you clearly have not shown anything here except your own stubbornness and unwillingness to accept the facts.

Could be? COULD BE!? You're talking about COULD BES? Zamasu could have been more powerful than Zeno and just faking it to teach everyone a lesson, he could be the grand priest, he could be Evil alternate universe Superman- he could be anything. I don't want what he could be, I want what he is, I want evidence, I want facts, and you don't want to give that, you give revisionism, you give lies of omission, you exclude context, you keep adding adjectives as if they show the TRUTH of the matter. Except it's not a truth, it's a lie made to soften your own ego which you've clearly connected to Vegetto for some completely insane reason. Maybe you actually believe it, but you've only lied to yourself on this, I don't usually say it this bluntly, but you have deceived yourself into thinking this. And now you're spreading this mistruth to everyone else.

You want me to say it's possible? Fine. It's possible. Now prove it. Because you haven't done any of that. you've given alternate interpretations to a scene that lacks the evidence behind it. To put it another way, you're saying the Earth is flat. It's possible, but it doesn't have the most evidence, it only has justifications. And at this point, I'm only arguing for anyone reading this so they don't get the wrong idea and start thinking the Earth is flat. That was a metaphor and comparison by the way.

And that one is just plain wrong. "Tanking" attacks and not getting hurt doesn't look like that, we both know this.

At this point, short of calling me a liar, I'm not sure where this is gonna go at this point. But at this point this isn't about just you anymore, you won't change your mind, you're not open to the possibility. At this point, I'm only arguing so others can see and hopefully draw a conclusion using logic and facts.
You're being bias and you ignored some of the key points of my posts. You exaggerated Vegito to being in pain when clearly he isn't. Your whole little post is just a lie on how it went down. The things Zamasu did, didn't even hurt Vegito.

Vegito was on the offensive not Zamasu.

Edit: Anyone who thinks Zamasu was "winning" needs to rewatch the entire fight again till they understand that the ONLY little thing that hints at Zamasu being stronger is the Final Kamehameha scene. Everything other then that hints at nothing regarding Zamasu's "superiority" .
I take it you didn't even read my post. I am not surprised at this point considering past interactions. For there was only one time I brought up how much pain Vegetto was in.

Quote:
 
And that one is just plain wrong. "Tanking" attacks and not getting hurt doesn't look like that, we both know this.

I didn't even describe Vegetto's pain, much less exaggerate it.


So? If I try to punch you and you take it to the face, you don't react in any meaningful way, and then proceed to to casually push me to the ground, was I "winning?" I presume not right?

So let's bring that back here then, if almost every attack Vegetto attempts results in either Zamasu countering, trucking through, or just plain ignoring it while proclaiming himself a god, is Vegetto "winning?" No, he isn't, even if it's certainly closer than the previous example since Zamasu and Vegetto both got hurt during the fight, despite your claims that Vegetto tanked everuthing. That whole
Quote:
 
"Vegito wasn't really hurt from nothing Zamasu did other then having dirt on him."

statement, which is absolutely false.

Claims without evidence are ultimately empty.
Edited by Tinny, Jan 12 2017, 03:39 AM.
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Vegito wasn't hurt at all really. Zamasu wasn't hurt either but his attacks just looked more dramatic. Besides, he couldn't even free himself from Vegito's grip till he used his explosive wave.

Well, for one your example doesn't align with how Vegito and Zamasu battled. Zamasu was the one gaping more so then Vegito was.
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