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Chapter 19
Topic Started: Dec 20 2016, 08:21 PM (15,690 Views)
SSB Vegito
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I just made this separate from the "leaks" topic because the full chapter has been out for some time
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+ Pyrus
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Are you reading the correct translations? That sounds like some dubious quick fanslations.
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Mago_Gosora
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Well, as per my original comment here I'm pretty sure I was reading "fan-slations." Never seen Viz use lame, edgy language or outright spell things wrong. Lol
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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破壊王子

Ok, I think I may have found a way this scaling can work. It required bloating things a bit tho.

DB Super Power Levels
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+ Ssj3vegito96
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I think there's enough evidence in chapter 18, 19, and possibly 14 that vegeta is probably stronger than goku but that works too I guess

Also, the numbers look good but why is ssjb a 50,000,000x multiplier? I don't think there's a problem with it I'm just wondering
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Jan 3 2017, 06:30 PM.
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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破壊王子

Ssj3vegito96
Jan 3 2017, 06:29 PM
I think there's enough evidence in chapter 18, 19, and possibly 14 that vegeta is probably stronger than goku but that works too I guess

Also, the numbers look good but why is ssjb a 50,000,000x multiplier? I don't think there's a problem with it I'm just wondering
Well, Super Saiyan God is 50,000,000 times base because that's 1 million times Super Saiyan, and 1 million is equal to 10 to 6th power, which is in reference to the fact that it takes 6 Saiyans to make a Super Saiyan God. Plus, 1 million is just a nice big number. Super Saiyan Blue's multiplier is equal to that because Goku describes Super Saiyan Blue as a Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God. Super Saiyan God is static level going forward because it was brought on by a ritual, and not the result of Goku's training.
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+ Ssj3vegito96
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10 to the 6th power because of the 6 saiyans is clever. I like it

I don't know if I agree with ssjb being as strong as ssjg though

When goku says ssjb is a ssj with the power of ssjg I think he just means the God ki("power" he talks about) because vegeta never got ssjg yet he has ssjb. So ssjb is the God ki, which was the result of proper ki control they learned from whis, plus ssj. I don't think he means it's a super saiyan with the power level of ssjg

And ssjb needs to be stronger than ssjg otherwise goku wouldn't have saved it for the end and been able to negate hit's timeskip by using it


Edit: looked at the power levels again. Nvm. You made ssjb stronger. I misunderstood what you were saying I guess

And I'm not sure ssjg being a static power level works. This interview was done when BOG came out

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Is it possible that other Saiyans will be able to become [Super Saiyan] God in the future?
Of course. However, strength will vary depending on the battle power of the Saiyan who becomes [Super Saiyan] God.


So ssjg goku during the tournament should be stronger than when he fought beerus
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Jan 3 2017, 07:04 PM.
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+ Pyrus
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Plus, Vegeta tells Cabba that Blue is the strongest form, which wouldn't be true if it was equal to Super Saiyan God.
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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破壊王子

Pyrus
Jan 3 2017, 07:03 PM
Plus, Vegeta tells Cabba that Blue is the strongest form, which wouldn't be true if it was equal to Super Saiyan God.
What makes Blue stronger is that its power increases proportional to its user. Super Saiyan God's power is depended on when it was attained. It's static.
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Jan 3 2017, 08:27 PM.
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ThePrinceOfSaiyans
Jan 3 2017, 08:26 PM
Pyrus
Jan 3 2017, 07:03 PM
Plus, Vegeta tells Cabba that Blue is the strongest form, which wouldn't be true if it was equal to Super Saiyan God.
What makes Blue stronger is that its power increases proportional to its user. Super Saiyan God's power is depended on when it was attained. It's static.
But, why? Goku may have achieved it with a ritual, but he's still able to utilize it again after that, indicating it's not dependent on the ritual.
Edited by Pyrus, Jan 3 2017, 10:28 PM.
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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破壊王子

Pyrus
Jan 3 2017, 10:26 PM
ThePrinceOfSaiyans
Jan 3 2017, 08:26 PM
Pyrus
Jan 3 2017, 07:03 PM
Plus, Vegeta tells Cabba that Blue is the strongest form, which wouldn't be true if it was equal to Super Saiyan God.
What makes Blue stronger is that its power increases proportional to its user. Super Saiyan God's power is depended on when it was attained. It's static.
But, why? Goku may have achieved it with a ritual, but he's still able to utilize it again after that, indicating it's not dependent on the ritual.
But Vegeta isn't able to access it, implying it's not a natural form. The way I see it, Super Saiyan Blue is how Super Saiyan God is achieved naturally, as this seems to be consistent with how it's described. Super Saiyan Blue is described as a Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God.
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ekrolo2
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"This is a contrived mess that started no one knows how it works" - The true explanation for Blue/SSGSS.

Make any headcanon you want folks but when the regular SS forms came back, you knew whatever internal logic Blue had was deader than the dinosaurs.
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+ Ssj3vegito96
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ThePrinceOfSaiyans
Jan 3 2017, 11:15 PM
Pyrus
Jan 3 2017, 10:26 PM
ThePrinceOfSaiyans
Jan 3 2017, 08:26 PM
Pyrus
Jan 3 2017, 07:03 PM
Plus, Vegeta tells Cabba that Blue is the strongest form, which wouldn't be true if it was equal to Super Saiyan God.
What makes Blue stronger is that its power increases proportional to its user. Super Saiyan God's power is depended on when it was attained. It's static.
But, why? Goku may have achieved it with a ritual, but he's still able to utilize it again after that, indicating it's not dependent on the ritual.
But Vegeta isn't able to access it, implying it's not a natural form. The way I see it, Super Saiyan Blue is how Super Saiyan God is achieved naturally, as this seems to be consistent with how it's described. Super Saiyan Blue is described as a Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God.
I guess that makes sense. If vegeta is a ssjb, which means he has the power of ssjg but without doing the ritual, then he obviously turned ssjg naturally and ssjb is the result.

I can see that working for the anime and movies they can't just go ssjg at will but in the manga when goku turns ssjg without the need of the ritual, why does he not turn ssjb when he does it? How does he turn ssjg then? We saw him actually power up to it against Hit. Although we also saw him turn it off and on really quick against trunks. Either way it's essentially the same form just achieved through different means right? Ssjg being a static power level is head canon for the manga. There isn't really a reason in the manga for it to be static

Vegeta in his normal state is a strong as base goku(who is stronger than ssjg). Then that means if vegeta turns ssjb(which is essentially ssjg) for the first time he should get the same multiplier as ssjg and be insanely stronger than everyone. That applies to the anime and movies only though.

So for the manga I think(?) your theory would actually make sense

I think this whole mess is avoided though by not taking gokus explanation at face value and just leaving them as separate forms. Ssjg is ssjg. Ssjb is ssj with proper ki(God ki) and that God ki is the power of ssjg he's talking about

ekrolo2
Jan 3 2017, 11:27 PM
"This is a contrived mess that started no one knows how it works" - The true explanation for Blue/SSGSS.

Make any headcanon you want folks but when the regular SS forms came back, you knew whatever internal logic Blue had was deader than the dinosaurs.


I don't think it's a mess at all. It's literally just ssj or probably mssj with proper ki control(God ki)
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Jan 4 2017, 02:17 AM.
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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Not seeing how the Super Saiyan God transformations are complicated.

SSJG=When a Saiyan utilizes the god ki of a Super Saiyan god.

SSB=When a Saiyan utilizes the god ki of a Super Saiyan god, then turns into a Super Saiyan.

Goku literally explained in a very simple fashion what SSB was, yet people still aren't understanding it for some reason. Only reason that people can't understand it is because people love to cling to the baseless "2 base theory" for dear life.
Edited by SuperSaiyanGodGogeta, Jan 4 2017, 02:00 AM.
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Jan 4 2017, 01:59 AM
Not seeing how the Super Saiyan God transformations are complicated.

SSJG=When a Saiyan utilizes the god ki of a Super Saiyan god.

SSB=When a Saiyan utilizes the god ki of a Super Saiyan god, then turns into a Super Saiyan.

Goku literally explained in a very simple fashion what SSB was, yet people still aren't understanding it for some reason. Only reason that people can't understand it is because people love to cling to the baseless "2 base theory" for dear life.
This is pretty much what I thought. I think that when goku says ssjb is a ssj with the power of ssjg the "power" he's referring to is just God ki. I think that works fine

But princeofsaiyans does bring up an interesting idea. If you were to take what goku says at face value then it makes sense that they are essentially the same forms but achieved through different means. How else would vegeta be "a ssj with the power of ssjg" despite never doing the ritual? It's simple. He DID turn ssjg but by himself and the result is ssjb

The problem is that base vegeta is already stronger than ssjg goku which means turning ssjb, which is ssjg, would make him insanely strong. So goku had to have been referring the type of ki that ssjg has. I think the base saiyan=ssjg thing only applies to the movies and anime but I don't see why ssjb explanation needs to be any different in the manga
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Jan 4 2017, 02:26 AM.
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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Ssj3vegito96
Jan 4 2017, 02:06 AM
SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
Jan 4 2017, 01:59 AM
Not seeing how the Super Saiyan God transformations are complicated.

SSJG=When a Saiyan utilizes the god ki of a Super Saiyan god.

SSB=When a Saiyan utilizes the god ki of a Super Saiyan god, then turns into a Super Saiyan.

Goku literally explained in a very simple fashion what SSB was, yet people still aren't understanding it for some reason. Only reason that people can't understand it is because people love to cling to the baseless "2 base theory" for dear life.
This is pretty much what I thought. I think that when goku says ssjb is a ssj with the power of ssjg the "power" he's referring to is just God ki. I think that works fine

But princeofsaiyans does bring up an interesting idea. If you were to take what goku says at face value then it makes sense that they are essentially the same forms but achieved through different means. How else would vegeta be "a ssj with the power of ssjg" despite never doing the ritual? It's simple. He DID turn ssjg but by himself and the result is ssjb

The problem is that base vegeta is already stronger than ssjg goku which means turning ssjb, which is ssjg, would make him insanely strong. So goku had to have been referring the type of ki that ssjg has
I don't know where the idea comes from the Vegeta can't go SSJG. He's using it every time he goes SSB. SSB is just going SSJ while in the red form.

When Vegeta goes SSB, he is just doing what Goku does. There isn't any difference between their powers. The only difference is that Vegeta didn't use the ritual to obtain the power of god.

Base Vegeta being stronger than BOG SSJG Goku doesn't mean anything. When Goku and Vegeta go SSB, they get the full SSJG multiplier that Goku was shown to get from the ritual, amplified further by simultaneously going SSJ.
They don't have a second god ki base with their god transformations only being slightly stronger than that base.
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