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What's your gap/numbers for SS3 Goku and Fat Buu
Topic Started: Dec 19 2016, 03:20 PM (1,228 Views)
+ Pyrus
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It is possible. He did make some tactical errors with that fight.
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+ Sandy Shore
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Clearin
Dec 20 2016, 08:32 PM
That's pretty contextual though. Fat Boo was someone who was easier to manipulate with words, and for some reason, someone who Goku didn't seem to hate too much. Kid Boo on the other hand had just pissed Goku off with the whole blowing up the Earth and his sons. Goku did however praise Kid Boo just before he killed him with the spirit bomb.
I was going to make this exact point, but didn't think it worth bringing up. I'll thumbs up in agreement, though.

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Pretty sure that was in reference to him not using fusion.
Not so sure I agree with this. It's possible, but I think it's in reference to him not obliterating him at full-power like he supposedly could have, because he wanted to show off to Vegeta, Boo, or both.

Pyrus
 
True, we know Goku held back, but it was stated during the scuffle that Boo was enjoying himself as well, as opposed to his demeanor against Majin Vegeta.
EMIYA
 
Fat Boo literally treated the entire fight with Goku as a fun game, like everything Goku threw at him, Boo had a stupid grin on his face the entire time.
Fat Boo was definitely having fun, and he wasn't angry, but nothing says he was holding back, either. He wasn't angry at Dabra, Gohan and Supreme Kai, and seemed to be having plenty of fun wrecking them. He was having fun torturing Vegeta, too. No, he wasn't powered all the way up at those times, but nothing says he was fighting or hitting at a lower level than whatever he was at at the time, which is what seems to be the suggestion he's doing against Goku - like Goku was seemingly doing to him.

It's not like he's trying to not hurt Goku, as nothing suggests that to be the case, nor does it even make sense for him to do so. I'm not seeing the correlation between him having fun and him not trying to hurt his opponent. Just because he's disappointed Goku powered down, doesn't mean he wouldn't be gleefully crushing him under his foot if he could. We know Goku doesn't want to beat him, and why.

Boo seems incapable, even if not all that far from his level, whereas Goku is unwillingly, and stated to be capable.

Pyrus
 
Not that this was part of our debate, but I figured I'd chime in and say Goku underestimated (or was plain unaware) of the severe strain Super Saiyan 3 would have in a living body, and coupled with Pure Boo's erratic and insane nature, it became increasingly improbable to surmount a viable offense against him at the time. Vegeta figured Goku could obliterate Boo with a full power assault, and Goku agreed, citing that he was trying to but never had an opening.
Yeah, you're right. I did realise sometime after posting that Goku was technically capable of beating Pure Boo, too, but I couldn't be bothered to change it.
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superperfectnerd
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Majin Vegeta = 14 398 000 000

Majin Boo = 17 998 000 000

ssj Gotenks = 22 498 000 000

ssj Gotenks (post ROSAT) = 28 122 000 000

Kid Boo = 51 833 000 000

ssj2 Gotenks = 56 244 000 000

ssj3 Goku = 57 592 000 000

Super Boo = 202 478 000 000

ssj3 Gotenks = 224 975 000 000

Ultimate Gohan = 281 219 000 000


I know my Fat Boo is only 1.25 times Majin Vegeta but I think this is enough to enable him to dominate and Boo's advantage is that he has limitless stamina and regeneration, so he can continuously fight at his maximum without any strain, even if he's 'playing', whereas the z fighter's power fluctuates as they fight and they won't last long putting out 100%, you can't literally give your maximum continuously you'll just burn out.

I'm a minimalist, I can't see Gohan being hundreds of times stronger than ssj3 Goku, it'd be too ridiculous and I don't think it's outright intended for that to be the implication.

I also think that a manga and anime aimed at children and young teens primarily wouldn't have two versions of a character in the same arc who look and act exactly the same but have vastly different power, without any training or obvious signs that their power is different. I mean that Good Boo = Fat Boo as far as I'm concerned. The release of the evil Boo didn't weaken Fat Boo, it was just an even stronger, non-restricted form of Boo. Which is why combining those two Boos makes a 'Super' Boo. Kid Boo is only slightly stronger than Grey Boo because he isn't a fusion of Fat Boo and Grey Boo, he's pure.
Edited by superperfectnerd, Dec 21 2016, 12:23 AM.
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Slifer
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Quote:
 
The release of the evil Boo didn't weaken Fat Boo, it was just an even stronger, non-restricted form of Boo. Which is why combining those two Boos makes a 'Super' Boo


It's pretty much outright stated that both Good and Grey Boo were weaker than Fat Boo. Piccolo acknowledged that their power had split with the majority going to the evil one. He can't be stronger.

As for the topic, around 1.2x give or take.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

Perhaps so, I always view it as kind of like, Goku in both his fights against each Boo was using his full power but not his full effort. Super Saiyan 3 has always been a form with strain both alive and dead. Alive it reduced stamina greatly and dead,it vastly decreased Goku's time to stay on Earth. It's usually imagined that Super Saiyan 3 isn't a form you can just casually fight in in whatever level you like.

I wouldn't say he wasn't angry at Dabura, Vegeta and the others as well.

Let's not forget, Boo got angry with Dabura once Dabura started attacking him and talking smack. It was at this point that Gohan, Goku and Vegeta noticed Boo's sudden power increase. Against his fight against Vegeta, he was getting the tar beaten out of him (even if it was inffectual.) He gets angry with Vegeta, blows up and starts dominating Vegeta.

There's always been some kind of note of power whenever Boo angry.

And while it's never directly stated here, it would make sense the same thing would happen when Satan was shot. It's where I like to imagine where Fat Boo's natural full power peaks. It's also where I like to believe Goku could finally get a real clue on where Boo stood. Before, he seems quite legitimate in his inability to defeat Fat boo. He's noting Boo's ki as a lie and I think he's honestly at the point during that moment where he doesn't know if he can beat Boo. He doesn't know where Boo stands in the long run.

Only afterwards, do I think Goku gets a good idea that, yes if he had gone all out against his fight with Boo, he'd have won.

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superperfectnerd
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Mr. Hashbrowns
Dec 21 2016, 12:31 AM
Quote:
 
The release of the evil Boo didn't weaken Fat Boo, it was just an even stronger, non-restricted form of Boo. Which is why combining those two Boos makes a 'Super' Boo


It's pretty much outright stated that both Good and Grey Boo were weaker than Fat Boo. Piccolo acknowledged that their power had split with the majority going to the evil one. He can't be stronger.

As for the topic, around 1.2x give or take.
Couldn't he have got his full power back after escaping from Kid Boo? Vegeta doesn't notice a difference in the Fat Boo fighting Kid Boo to the one he fought does he?
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Slifer
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superperfectnerd
Dec 21 2016, 01:06 AM
Mr. Hashbrowns
Dec 21 2016, 12:31 AM
Quote:
 
The release of the evil Boo didn't weaken Fat Boo, it was just an even stronger, non-restricted form of Boo. Which is why combining those two Boos makes a 'Super' Boo


It's pretty much outright stated that both Good and Grey Boo were weaker than Fat Boo. Piccolo acknowledged that their power had split with the majority going to the evil one. He can't be stronger.

As for the topic, around 1.2x give or take.
Couldn't he have got his full power back after escaping from Kid Boo? Vegeta doesn't notice a difference in the Fat Boo fighting Kid Boo to the one he fought does he?
They read Good Boo's mind when they were in Boohan's body so they knew everything that went down.
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+ Solid Snake
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滅Are you frightened?

Base Goku (pre-25th/post-25th): 680 million
-Full power Super Saiyan: 34 billion
-Super Saiyan 2: 68 billion
-Super Saiyan 3: 272 billion

Majin Buu (@ Goku): 250 billion

1.08x difference in power.
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EMIYA
 
Only afterwards, do I think Goku gets a good idea that, yes if he had gone all out against his fight with Boo, he'd have won.
But Goku outright lied before when he explains why he never beat the Fat Boo; he doesn't say anything to the the effect of not previously knowing, but having not told the truth.

I can say this now, (he couldn't say it before) but the truth is (what he can say now, but couldn't before, is the truth. Id est, he lied) that with that fat Boo, I would have been able to defeat him at the time with Super Saiyan 3... (what the lie was) However, I wanted the young guys to manage something... For the Earth's sake too... (the reason for his lie.)

If he didn't give the reason for his lie, you could say he now knows the truth when he hadn't previously, and he can now say it in light of new information. However, he outright tells us why he lied. I don't think there's any getting round it - Goku lied to Piccolo when he said he probably couldn't beat Boo, and we know exactly why he told that lie.

Quote:
 
Perhaps so, I always view it as kind of like, Goku in both his fights against each Boo was using his full power but not his full effort.
I agree. I don't think the point is that Goku hid his power—I don't think he can—just that he wasn't fighting very hard against the Fat one, and didn't go for the kill against Pure Boo. He gave the impression to Fatty that he's hardly greater than him, if greater at all, and Piccolo clearly gets the impression that Goku was stronger but didn't go for it, but Goku says it's "probably not true", basically. We find out this was a lie, and Piccolo was indeed right about what he said.

So it's not that Goku as a 100 has lowered his power to 80, but that he's only fighting like an 80 while his power at 100, say. Pulling his punches, and not putting a great deal in to his blasts. There's no reason for Boo to be doing the same, just because he's enjoying himself, nor any implication that he is.

Quote:
 
Let's not forget, Boo got angry with Dabura once Dabura started attacking him and talking smack. It was at this point that Gohan, Goku and Vegeta noticed Boo's sudden power increase. Against his fight against Vegeta, he was getting the tar beaten out of him (even if it was inffectual.) He gets angry with Vegeta, blows up and starts dominating Vegeta.
All this tells us is that Goku didn't give Boo a reason to get angry, nor cause his power to explode, though. It doesn't mean he's not trying to hurt or beat Goku for some inexplicable, never noted reason; he's just enjoying the fight. And he very clearly enjoys inflicting pain on and beating his opponents whenever he can, whether they've upset him or not.

I think the fight itself would be fine to have them as near equals, but there's more than enough else that suggests, to me, Goku was holding back, and still slightly superior to Fat Boo.
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