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What's your gap/numbers for SS3 Goku and Fat Buu
Topic Started: Dec 19 2016, 03:20 PM (1,227 Views)
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孫悟空

What's your gap/numbers for Super Saiyan 3 Goku and Fat Buu during their fight?
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+ Clearin
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About 100 (Goku) to 80-85 (Fat Boo)
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+ Pyrus
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I've settled on a 100-85 gap for a while now. It seems like enough room for Goku to be ahead, but not have a super easy time with Boo.
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Base Goku (pre-25th/post-25th): 680 million
-Full power Super Saiyan: 34 billion
-Super Saiyan 2: 68 billion
-Super Saiyan 3: 272 billion

Majin Buu: 250 billion

Something like this approximately...

So a 1.08x difference. I guess it could be a tad bigger.
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1.2x for me:

SSJ3 Goku: 100
Majin Buu: 83.333~

...though, obviously, Goku wasn't using the full extent of that 100.
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+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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I think Goku was 50% stronger, but was holding back a great deal. He didn't seem to be struggling at all.
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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Goku was over 2x stronger. Not sure how a small gap would make sense since Kid Boo is much stronger than Fat Boo, yet is still noticeably weaker than Goku's full power Super Saiyan 3.
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ThePrinceOfSaiyans
Dec 20 2016, 02:37 PM
I think Goku was 50% stronger, but was holding back a great deal. He didn't seem to be struggling at all.
I agree that Goku was holding back, yet still clearly superior, and 50% would also work well with Gohan's contribution to Boo's energy meter, but considering Good Boo still seems to be superior to Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta, Fat Boo is going to have to be even stronger than two-times Vegeta.

So, I see him at 75% Goku, and definitely no more than 80%.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

80-85% as well.

The battles between Fat Boo and Kid Boo are, quite honestly treated exactly the same.

It's noted Goku can defeat Fat Boo at full power and it's noted that Goku can defeat Kid Boo at full power.

In each battle, both Boo's are said to be going easy in some regard. Fat Boo treated the fight as some fun little game while Kid Boo was described (by Herms at least) as lollygagging.

Good Boo, someone over 2x weaker than Fat Boo, is still doing significantly better than SSJ2 Vegeta. Boost him up over 2x and where might he stand then?

Technically, I could have Kid Boo weaker than Fat Boo and it would still work. In the end, I really don' t need a big gap between the two Boo's or between them and Goku.
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I mean, it's also noted that Fat Boo wasn't serious either...
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EMIYA
Dec 20 2016, 04:47 PM
Technically, I could have Kid Boo weaker than Fat Boo and it would still work. In the end, I really don' t need a big gap between the two Boo's or between them and Goku.
Goku states very clearly he could have beaten the Fat Boo but chose not to, yet was incapable of beating Pure Boo. Pure Boo is definitely stronger.

Pyrus
 
I mean, it's also noted that Fat Boo wasn't serious either...
It's not stated he was holding back, though. Nor is there any reason to believe he was; he clearly likes hurting others, so if he was capable of hurting Goku, why wouldn't he?

Goku, on the other hand, outright tells us he held back, and why.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

Fat Boo literally treated the entire fight with Goku as a fun game, like everything Goku threw at him, Boo had a stupid grin on his face the entire time. At times Boo has a manic grin on his face, puts a mocking tone at times. According to Goku, Boo was going to be excited in fighting someone even stronger than Goku. In the end, Fat Boo clearly wasn't showing the effort he would show against people like Kid Boo (as Good Boo) and Aku Boo. Where he's clearly ticked off and trying.

And while you can certainly make the same argument with Kid Boo, the difference there I think is the fact that while constantly praising Fat Boo, he actually mocks Kid Boo. Going as far as to call his Kamehameha weak.

You say that Goku wasn't able to defeat Kid Boo. He never tried, by the time he attempted it, he lost stamina and was unable to get the job done. He even states he was showing off.

Mind you, I don't think the intention is to have Kid Boo weaker, but there isn't anything to point out to Goku, Kid Boo and Fat Boo have extremely significant differences.



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It's not stated he was holding back, though. Nor is there any reason to believe he was; he clearly likes hurting others, so if he was capable of hurting Goku, why wouldn't he?

Goku, on the other hand, outright tells us he held back, and why.
True, we know Goku held back, but it was stated during the scuffle that Boo was enjoying himself as well, as opposed to his demeanor against Majin Vegeta. The fight was never one-sided, despite what the anime may have led some to believe—Boo recovered near instantly from everything Goku threw at him, even delivered a more effective right hook than he received, and was seen to be having more fun than Goku was judging by facial expressions, which also showed Goku putting in noticeable effort to pound Boo around. I'm pretty sure there's even a title page, at least in Viz, that said something to the effect of "Boo's terrifying true power is being revealed."

Chapter: 475 (DBZ 281), P9.5-6
Context: after Goku returns to his normal form after fighting Boo as a Super Saiyan 3
Boo: “Hey! Why’d you change back? It’s fun fighting you. Let’s do some more!”
Goku: “That’s an honor. However, I ain’t got no time. I can’t just play around with you forever.”

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Goku states very clearly he could have beaten the Fat Boo but chose not to, yet was incapable of beating Pure Boo. Pure Boo is definitely stronger.
Not that this was part of our debate, but I figured I'd chime in and say Goku underestimated (or was plain unaware) of the severe strain Super Saiyan 3 would have in a living body, and coupled with Pure Boo's erratic and insane nature, it became increasingly improbable to surmount a viable offense against him at the time. Vegeta figured Goku could obliterate Boo with a full power assault, and Goku agreed, citing that he was trying to but never had an opening.

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P13.1-6
Vegeta: “Don’t hesitate for my sake, and finish him off! With that Super Saiyan 3, you should be able to completely wipe out Boo with your ki once you gather it with all your might…!”
Goku: “Ye…yeah…I’ve been thinking of doing that as well since awhile back, but…I haven’t gotten the chance.”

Chapter: 513 (DBZ 319), P1.2
Context: after Goku drops out of Super Saiyan 3
Goku: “Da-dammit…When I was dead, it was no problem at all…It seems that in the end, becoming a Super Saiyan 3 with a living body eats up an excessive amount of ki…”


But I do agree with Pure Boo being stronger than Fat Boo. :=]:
Edited by Pyrus, Dec 20 2016, 08:25 PM.
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EMIYA
Dec 20 2016, 07:57 PM

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And while you can certainly make the same argument with Kid Boo, the difference there I think is the fact that while constantly praising Fat Boo, he actually mocks Kid Boo. Going as far as to call his Kamehameha weak.

That's pretty contextual though. Fat Boo was someone who was easier to manipulate with words, and for some reason, someone who Goku didn't seem to hate too much. Kid Boo on the other hand had just pissed Goku off with the whole blowing up the Earth and his sons. Goku did however praise Kid Boo just before he killed him with the spirit bomb.

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He even states he was showing off.

Pretty sure that was in reference to him not using fusion.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

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Pretty sure that was in reference to him not using fusion.


I'm pretty sure Goku was talking about himself in the line.

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P13.5
Context: after Super Saiyan 3 Goku explains he needs to gather ki for 1 minute to defeat pure Boo
Goku: “Dammnit~~~If it was with the Potara, I could have done it in one blast. …..Cheh~~~I guess I went and showed off too much. But I thought things would go a little better than this…!”

The line to me says that while Goku was putting out his full power, he's not putting out his full effort . What from biting Boo on the head and all that. Goku's line seems to just be that he should've gone up, blasted Boo with all he had the moment the fight started but just let it drag on until he couldn't muster the strength to put Boo down when he had the chance before. He was showing off instead of actually getting work done.
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