Sam

Dec 12 2016, 09:06 PM

I have seen both. Zeitgeist made claims about Jesus, Horus, and other figures IIRC. Those claims on the striking similarities are factual. Jesus Camp is a lot more refined and depressing. I got the impression Zeitgeist was made by a nutjob using Windows Movie Maker lol.

Also, surprised I gotta say this but, don't spam deep discussion?

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To Lazer, you are correct in that Zeitgeist exaggerates or flat out asspulls facts about the deity parallels. But not all of them are fallacious, and I did a lot of research on this particular aspect.

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As for the historians, the most famous examples truly never mentioned Jesus

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There were fallacious religious documents attributed to historians of that era from the various religious institutions throughout the years (Catholicism being the most predominant) that have been proven forgeries.

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Many of the things Zeitgeist claims on religion are not wrong

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I do think religion is one of the most destructive forces conjured by the human nature, and is a perfect representation of society's institutional dysfunction taken to another level, because in this case, we worship the inherent dysfunctional nature. Machiavelli touches on this in The Prince and provides great examples of how religion can and has been used as a tool to control and subjugate the masses. Especially by tyrants who are not even religious and recognize it's power. A modern example of this would be Adolf Hitler, who was an atheist but frequently cited god and used religion as a means to make the Germans ever more zealous on the heels of their catastrophic loss in World War I.

Sam

 

I have NOT debated religion in awhile because I did it so much when you many of you were either non-members or in some cases, children. I made up my own mind and decided to let people believe what they want. I stopped trying to push atheism on people because it is so damn annoying to have religion pushed on me. I only push back when I am pushed anymore. So, my arguments are not as sharp as they have been in the past.

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I can safely say I ended my personal religious studies in 2013 after reading through the Bible in college. I littered it with bookmarks and highlighted passages, and then put it away for reference. I haven't had to reference it, because, as I said, I actively advocate for a person's individual right to choose whatever they want for themselves as long as it is not harming or infringing on the rights of others.

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Has atheism ever inspired mass genocide

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suicide bombing

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wide-spread discrimination and hatred?

Sousen Ichimonji

Dec 13 2016, 12:51 AM

I mean, not to be dat guy or anything but there is something really arrogant about feeling the need to post a lengthy description of your opinion if you don't want people to react to it, especially if you are going to directly address the member who you later tell off for trying to bring you into a debate.

Also the idea that putting hard time into debating religion years ago means you can come in and act like a guru but not defend or discuss your ideas is silly, the social landscape of this forum has changed immeasurably since you were in your hay day of trash talking religion. I remember having a debate with you years ago when I just got bored of it because you kept talking about the Nazi's. There's every chance that you could bring up the exact same arguments you did then and someone could help you develop them or see why they're incorrect. Resting on your supposed laurels on any subject is the best way to ensure you just stop learning about it, Dunning-Kruger effect etc.

lazerbem

Dec 13 2016, 02:05 AM

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Has atheism ever inspired mass genocide

Khmer Rouge murdering Buddhists to destroy religion comes to mind. So does the Eastern Bloc's crackdowns where priests were murdered, particularly Enver Hoxha's in which 90% of priests were murdered and those that survived were forced to renounce their religion and/or go into hiding.

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suicide bombing

You've got a point there, most atheist persecutors and revolutionaries preferred to not explode themselves when they left bombs to explode priests.

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wide-spread discrimination and hatred?

Eastern Bloc, Mao, Khmer Rouge, Cristero War, and Republicans in the Spanish Civil War come to mind. A lot of them had official party statements on the subject too.

You could try to play genocide olympics, but that's a very nasty road to go down. Point is that there have been quite a few radical atheist movements in history that sought to destroy a religion. Now, of course there were other motives to their actions too, but you could say that about religious radicals too(it's pretty much never only religious in cause)

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Claiming that those instances are the same as the widespread evils committed by the Catholic Church and radical Islam is going quickly to send you down a slippery slope.

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Comparable, yes, but very different

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"atrocities"

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committed by Atheists no longer happen today to any attention-grabbing or significant extent.

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You could argue that the ocean is brown because some parts of it are heavily polluted, but it's a fools errand to argue that the ocean isn't blue/green. I feel like that's a decent enough analogy for the conversation going on at the moment.