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Manga RF saga and power levels
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Topic Started: Dec 1 2016, 05:20 PM (6,388 Views)
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Dec 5 2016, 08:55 PM
Post #31
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魔王子
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- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Dec 5 2016, 07:23 PM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyans
- Dec 5 2016, 03:28 PM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Dec 5 2016, 01:18 AM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyans
- Dec 4 2016, 08:39 PM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Dec 4 2016, 02:23 AM
- Ssj3vegito96
- Dec 4 2016, 01:42 AM
Saying he kept the form makes more sense than absorbing it though. If manga goku absorbed it like in the anime then his base form would be way stronger and he wouldn't need to turn ssj
You could still say he absorbed it I guess. Otherwise he wouldn't have kept the form. So I think it makes sense when you put it that way
There is no difference between Base Goku's power in the manga or anime. There is no difference in the way his god power works either. He doesn't have any in base. You're saying that the power of SSG became his base form in the anime, while in the manga he kept the power but doesn't have the power of god in base. The former isn't implied in any official media, while the latter is the case in both the anime & manga as there isn't any difference between them in terms of how the character's powers work. The only "evidence" that I've seen is that he hasn't transformed into SSG in the anime, which makes no sense.
Sorry, but the anime definitely suggests Goku's base is at least as strong as Super Saiyan God. According to Kuririn and Gohan, base Goku and Freeza were putting out more power than when Goku and Beerus fought. We're also outright told that Goku absorbed Super Saiyan God in both the anime and Battle of Gods. No such thing was said in Toyotaro's manga.
How strong Goku is in base is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if he has SSG level power in base. He still has no god power in base and there is no power difference between the anime and manga. Goku retaining SSG's power doesn't need to be explicitly said. It's common sense. We see him using the form, so he did retain the power.
Yeah, we kinda do have to be told since Goku never reverts to Super Saiyan in the manga. I seriously don't understand why you're so opposed to this being different when myriad of other things are different.
Him not reverting back to Super Saiyan isn't evidence of anything. Goku used up all of his power and was exhausted. To make what I'm saying even simpler, he had no more energy to even use Super Saiyan after countering Beerus' attack. We don't need to be told that he retained the power since it's obvious. We see him using the form later on which shoots down what you're saying. You don't seem to understand the rules of logic. Unless specified to be the case, I have no reason to believe it is the case. And the fact that Goku uses Super Saiyan God, despite his base form already being stronger than Super Saiyan God in the anime, does kinda suggest he didn't absorb Super Saiyan God into his being in Toyotaro's manga. Also, "it's obvious" isn't an argument.
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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Dec 6 2016, 01:22 AM
Post #32
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- ThePrinceOfSaiyans
- Dec 5 2016, 08:55 PM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Dec 5 2016, 07:23 PM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyans
- Dec 5 2016, 03:28 PM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Dec 5 2016, 01:18 AM
- ThePrinceOfSaiyans
- Dec 4 2016, 08:39 PM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Dec 4 2016, 02:23 AM
- Ssj3vegito96
- Dec 4 2016, 01:42 AM
Saying he kept the form makes more sense than absorbing it though. If manga goku absorbed it like in the anime then his base form would be way stronger and he wouldn't need to turn ssj
You could still say he absorbed it I guess. Otherwise he wouldn't have kept the form. So I think it makes sense when you put it that way
There is no difference between Base Goku's power in the manga or anime. There is no difference in the way his god power works either. He doesn't have any in base. You're saying that the power of SSG became his base form in the anime, while in the manga he kept the power but doesn't have the power of god in base. The former isn't implied in any official media, while the latter is the case in both the anime & manga as there isn't any difference between them in terms of how the character's powers work. The only "evidence" that I've seen is that he hasn't transformed into SSG in the anime, which makes no sense.
Sorry, but the anime definitely suggests Goku's base is at least as strong as Super Saiyan God. According to Kuririn and Gohan, base Goku and Freeza were putting out more power than when Goku and Beerus fought. We're also outright told that Goku absorbed Super Saiyan God in both the anime and Battle of Gods. No such thing was said in Toyotaro's manga.
How strong Goku is in base is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if he has SSG level power in base. He still has no god power in base and there is no power difference between the anime and manga. Goku retaining SSG's power doesn't need to be explicitly said. It's common sense. We see him using the form, so he did retain the power.
Yeah, we kinda do have to be told since Goku never reverts to Super Saiyan in the manga. I seriously don't understand why you're so opposed to this being different when myriad of other things are different.
Him not reverting back to Super Saiyan isn't evidence of anything. Goku used up all of his power and was exhausted. To make what I'm saying even simpler, he had no more energy to even use Super Saiyan after countering Beerus' attack. We don't need to be told that he retained the power since it's obvious. We see him using the form later on which shoots down what you're saying.
You don't seem to understand the rules of logic. Unless specified to be the case, I have no reason to believe it is the case. And the fact that Goku uses Super Saiyan God, despite his base form already being stronger than Super Saiyan God in the anime, does kinda suggest he didn't absorb Super Saiyan God into his being in Toyotaro's manga. Also, "it's obvious" isn't an argument. He transformed into SSG during the U6 tournament. I don't know how it could be anymore obvious that SSG's power is integrated into him. The only one who doesn't understand logic here would be you. There is no specified power differences between the media. Might not want to strain your arm with all that reach. Base Goku surpassing his previous SSG level is not in any way evidence for what you're claiming.
Goku reaching SSG level in base,
Spoiler: click to toggle
does not magically make the transformation cease to exist.
Spoiler: click to toggle
any argument that you're making about there being any difference between the manga and anime in terms of power is just wishful thinking on your part, wishful thinking that makes no coherent sense. More like complete lunacy due to the amount of hoops and mental gymnastics one has to jump through to reach your conclusion.
It was "never shown" that Frieza reached his Golden state in the manga, so are we to assume that the Golden Frieza we saw didn't happen in the manga's version of events and that he would somehow be different? You really think that's the intention of Toei & Toyotaro? Complete nonsense.
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Dec 6 2016, 01:43 AM
Post #33
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So every difference there might be between the anime and manga doesn't actually exist?
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Dec 6 2016, 01:51 AM
Post #34
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魔王子
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- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Dec 6 2016, 01:22 AM
He transformed into SSG during the U6 tournament. I don't know how it could be anymore obvious that SSG's power is integrated into him. The only one who doesn't understand logic here would be you. There is no specified power differences between the media. Might not want to strain your arm with all that reach. Base Goku surpassing his previous SSG level is not in any way evidence for what you're claiming. Goku reaching SSG level in base, Spoiler: click to toggle does not magically make the transformation cease to exist. Spoiler: click to toggle any argument that you're making about there being any difference between the manga and anime in terms of power is just wishful thinking on your part, wishful thinking that makes no coherent sense. More like complete lunacy due to the amount of hoops and mental gymnastics one has to jump through to reach your conclusion. It was "never specified" that Frieza reached his Golden state in the manga, so are we to assume that Golden Frieza didn't happen in the manga's version of events? You really think that's the intention of Toei & Toyotaro? Complete nonsense. Him using the form at all would suggest to me that he didn't absorb it. I'm honestly not sure how you're reaching your conclusion. The manga and the anime are separate entities. To suggest they operate on the same logic "just because" is faulty reasoning, especially when you consider the many differences between the 2 we already know about, and why those differences exist.
I think it is evidence. Why would Goku need to use Super Saiyan God if his base is already stronger than Super Saiyan God? Do you not see the potential contradiction here? Of course you don't. You're the same guy that thinks Super and GT can coexist.
I'm not sure what the image is supposed to prove. I get that you're trying to suggest that this proves that base Goku is as strong as Super Saiyan God in base here, but I'm not sure how a silhouette of Super Saiyan God proves that. That's certainly an assumption on your part.
Oh? Super Saiyan 2 Trunks is as strong as Super Saiyan 3 Goku in Toyotaro's manga, whereas in the anime, Super Saiyan 3 Goku is stronger. Differences in the power scaling do exist, and they can be demonstrated.
Well, it was specified that he attained a further evolution, but that is besides the point. Toyotaro's manga explicitly states to watch the movie to get the rest of the story.
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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Dec 6 2016, 02:13 AM
Post #35
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- ThePrinceOfSaiyans
- Dec 6 2016, 01:51 AM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Dec 6 2016, 01:22 AM
He transformed into SSG during the U6 tournament. I don't know how it could be anymore obvious that SSG's power is integrated into him. The only one who doesn't understand logic here would be you. There is no specified power differences between the media. Might not want to strain your arm with all that reach. Base Goku surpassing his previous SSG level is not in any way evidence for what you're claiming. Goku reaching SSG level in base, Spoiler: click to toggle does not magically make the transformation cease to exist. Spoiler: click to toggle any argument that you're making about there being any difference between the manga and anime in terms of power is just wishful thinking on your part, wishful thinking that makes no coherent sense. More like complete lunacy due to the amount of hoops and mental gymnastics one has to jump through to reach your conclusion. It was "never specified" that Frieza reached his Golden state in the manga, so are we to assume that Golden Frieza didn't happen in the manga's version of events? You really think that's the intention of Toei & Toyotaro? Complete nonsense.
Him using the form at all would suggest to me that he didn't absorb it. I'm honestly not sure how you're reaching your conclusion. The manga and the anime are separate entities. To suggest they operate on the same logic "just because" is faulty reasoning, especially when you consider the many differences between the 2 we already know about, and why those differences exist. I think it is evidence. Why would Goku need to use Super Saiyan God if his base is already stronger than Super Saiyan God? Do you not see the potential contradiction here? Of course you don't. You're the same guy that thinks Super and GT can coexist. I'm not sure what the image is supposed to prove. I get that you're trying to suggest that this proves that base Goku is as strong as Super Saiyan God in base here, but I'm not sure how a silhouette of Super Saiyan God proves that. That's certainly an assumption on your part. Oh? Super Saiyan 2 Trunks is as strong as Super Saiyan 3 Goku in Toyotaro's manga, whereas in the anime, Super Saiyan 3 Goku is stronger. Differences in the power scaling do exist, and they can be demonstrated. Well, it was specified that he attained a further evolution, but that is besides the point. Toyotaro's manga explicitly states to watch the movie to get the rest of the story. He absorbed the power, hence he can use the transformation. Not that hard to understand.
How about you think about what you type before posting? Super Saiyan God is nothing more than a transformation just like every other Super Saiyan form. ROF Base Goku was stronger than BOG Super Saiyan God Goku. So what?
ROF SSG Goku would be proportionally stronger. The panel I posted shows the Goku reaching the level of Super Saiyan God in base, otherwise the parallel between them wouldn't be there. That's basic comprehension.
SSJ2 Trunks wasn't as strong as SSJ3 Goku in the manga. He powered up almost as much as Goku.
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Dec 6 2016, 02:24 AM
Post #36
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魔王子
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- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Dec 6 2016, 02:13 AM
He absorbed the power, hence he can use the transformation. Not that hard to understand.
How about you think about what you type before posting? Super Saiyan God is nothing more than a transformation just like every other Super Saiyan form. ROF Base Goku was stronger than BOG Super Saiyan God Goku. So what?
ROF SSG Goku would be proportionally stronger. The panel I posted shows the Goku reaching the level of Super Saiyan God in base, otherwise the parallel between them wouldn't be there. That's basic comprehension.
SSJ2 Trunks wasn't as strong as SSJ3 Goku in the manga. He powered up almost as much as Goku. But that's not how that works. We're told that Goku now has the power of Super Saiyan God in base, so transforming would be redundant.
Why transform if he has the power of Super Saiyan God in base? In effect, he wouldn't get any stronger.
Proportionate to what? His base is as strong as Super Saiyan God, so he wouldn't get any stronger. How? Did Goku get 10 times stronger when he killed Piccolo because there was a silhouette of an Oozaru behind him?

Which is to say he's pretty much as strong. Super Saiyan 3 Goku one shots him in the anime after catching his sword. Goku turns into a Super Saiyan God and one shots him in the manga.
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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Dec 6 2016, 02:55 AM
Post #37
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- ThePrinceOfSaiyans
- Dec 6 2016, 02:24 AM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Dec 6 2016, 02:13 AM
He absorbed the power, hence he can use the transformation. Not that hard to understand.
How about you think about what you type before posting? Super Saiyan God is nothing more than a transformation just like every other Super Saiyan form. ROF Base Goku was stronger than BOG Super Saiyan God Goku. So what?
ROF SSG Goku would be proportionally stronger. The panel I posted shows the Goku reaching the level of Super Saiyan God in base, otherwise the parallel between them wouldn't be there. That's basic comprehension.
SSJ2 Trunks wasn't as strong as SSJ3 Goku in the manga. He powered up almost as much as Goku.
But that's not how that works. We're told that Goku now has the power of Super Saiyan God in base, so transforming would be redundant. Why transform if he has the power of Super Saiyan God in base? In effect, he wouldn't get any stronger. Proportionate to what? His base is as strong as Super Saiyan God, so he wouldn't get any stronger. How? Did Goku got 10 times stronger when he killed Piccolo because there was a silhouette of an Oozaru behind him?  Which is to say he's pretty much as strong. Super Saiyan 3 Goku one shots him in the anime after catching his sword. Goku turns into a Super Saiyan God and one shots him in the manga.
Goku has no god ki in base, hence why everyone can sense him. Not sure how many times this has to be said before you get it. The interview you're referring to is most likely referring to the ritual. He doesn't need to do the ritual again since he has absorbed the power and made it his own.
ROF SSJG Goku>ROF Base Goku>BOG SSJG Goku. It's that simple.
The Ozaru behind Kid Goku was said to represent his hidden power, more specifically his Saiyan Heritage.
There is no reason for Super Saiyan God to appear behind Goku unless he reached that level.
There is no reason to believe that the encounter wouldn't have gone down similarly in the manga if Goku stayed in SSJ3. He only went SSJG in the manga since he got carried away.
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Dec 6 2016, 03:06 AM
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Trunks was slightly stronger than Goku as Super Saiyan 2s, and then was stated to have powered up about the same amount as Goku did with Super Saiyan 3. How could the encounter have gone the same way if they're both of a similar level? Goku was just a lot stronger in the anime than Trunks at the time.
Edited by Pyrus, Dec 6 2016, 03:06 AM.
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Dec 6 2016, 03:08 AM
Post #39
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魔王子
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- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Dec 6 2016, 02:55 AM
Goku has no god ki in base, hence why everyone can sense him. Not sure how many times this has to be said before you get it. The interview you're referring to is most likely referring to the ritual. He doesn't need to do the ritual again since he has absorbed the power and made it his own.
The Ozaru behind Kid Goku was said to represent his hidden power, more specifically his Saiyan Heritage.
There is no reason for Super Saiyan God to appear behind Goku unless he reached that level.
There is no reason to believe that the encounter wouldn't have gone down similarly in the manga if Goku stayed in SSJ3. He only went SSJG in the manga since he got carried away. In the anime, yes, he has no god Ki in base, but that's irrelevant. I'm saying he has the power of Super Saiyan God, two different things. I wasn't referring to any interview, but now that you bring it up, yes, I suppose that interview with Toriyama would give further credence to the idea that Toyotaro chose to separate Super Saiyan God from Goku's base form because the question asked of Toriyama was, "will Goku be able to become a Super Saiyan God again?"
- Akira Toriyama: Super Godly Interview
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Q: Will Goku be able to transform into [Super Saiyan] God in the future?A: I think you’ll understand if you watch [the movie], but Goku has already absorbed [Super Saiyan] God’s power and made it his own, so there is no need for him to transform into [Super Saiyan] God. Goku basically only thinks of fighting as a sporting match, so borrowing the power of five people isn’t fair, and he resisted doing that; however, it seems his curiosity towards the realm that lay even further beyond him won out. http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/battle-gods-animanga-akira-toriyama/
Except Goku wasn't established to be a Saiyan at this point, so no, you're wrong. And why can't the Super Saiyan God silhouette reference the hidden power of a god within Goku? Do you not see the double standard?
The reason I gave above would suffice.
Except we're outright told that Trunks is almost as strong as Goku, so there's no way Goku in one shotting him. Furthermore, there would be no need to turn into a Super Saiyan God if he could one shot Trunks as a Super Saiyan 3. You're seriously reaching here.
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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Dec 6 2016, 03:38 AM
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- ThePrinceOfSaiyans
- Dec 6 2016, 03:08 AM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Dec 6 2016, 02:55 AM
Goku has no god ki in base, hence why everyone can sense him. Not sure how many times this has to be said before you get it. The interview you're referring to is most likely referring to the ritual. He doesn't need to do the ritual again since he has absorbed the power and made it his own.
The Ozaru behind Kid Goku was said to represent his hidden power, more specifically his Saiyan Heritage.
There is no reason for Super Saiyan God to appear behind Goku unless he reached that level.
There is no reason to believe that the encounter wouldn't have gone down similarly in the manga if Goku stayed in SSJ3. He only went SSJG in the manga since he got carried away.
In the anime, yes, he has no god Ki in base, but that's irrelevant. I'm saying he has the power of Super Saiyan God, two different things. I wasn't referring to any interview, but now that you bring it up, yes, I suppose that interview with Toriyama would give further credence to the idea that Toyotaro chose to separate Super Saiyan God from Goku's base form because the question asked of Toriyama was, "will Goku be able to become a Super Saiyan God again?" - Akira Toriyama: Super Godly Interview
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Q: Will Goku be able to transform into [Super Saiyan] God in the future?A: I think you’ll understand if you watch [the movie], but Goku has already absorbed [Super Saiyan] God’s power and made it his own, so there is no need for him to transform into [Super Saiyan] God. Goku basically only thinks of fighting as a sporting match, so borrowing the power of five people isn’t fair, and he resisted doing that; however, it seems his curiosity towards the realm that lay even further beyond him won out. http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/battle-gods-animanga-akira-toriyama/
Except Goku wasn't established to be a Saiyan at this point, so no, you're wrong. And why can't the Super Saiyan God silhouette reference the hidden power of a god within Goku? Do you not see the double standard? The reason I gave above would suffice. Except we're outright told that Trunks is almost as strong as Goku, so there's no way Goku in one shotting him. Furthermore, there would be no need to turn into a Super Saiyan God if he could one shot Trunks as a Super Saiyan 3. You're seriously reaching here. Incoherent conclusion. The interview mentions that Goku does not need to transform into Super Saiyan God since he already has the power. The only method shown by that point to transform into Super Saiyan God is the ritual. All it says is that Goku doesn't need the ritual to transform into Super Saiyan God since he made the power his own.
Super Saiyan God never replaced Goku's base form. That's complete stupidity. If it was, he would have god ki in base, but he doesn't. Moot theory.
The Ozaru represented his hidden power which turned out to be his Saiyan heritage. It doesn't matter if Goku wasn't revealed to be a Saiyan by that point. It still represented his latent strength. Kid Goku could have tapped into certain amounts of his latent power in that scene.
In the panel I posted, the power that Goku used is shown reaching SSJG level. The panel makes no sense whatsoever otherwise. There would be no other reason for Toyotaro to parallel Base Goku punching Whis with SSJG Goku punching Whis.
Goku didn't one shot Trunks in the way you're implying. It was a sparring match. After Goku overwhelmed him and showed superiority, they stopped immediately since the point was to test how strong Goku was in comparison to Black. To top it off, Trunks wasn't even hurt when he got up from being "one shotted". Goku only used SSJG in the manga due to getting carried away. He can overwhelm Trunks using only SSJ3.
Black couldn't even one shot Trunks and he is stronger than SSJ3 Goku.
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Dec 6 2016, 03:59 AM
Post #41
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魔王子
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- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Dec 6 2016, 03:38 AM
Incoherent conclusion. The interview mentions that Goku does not need to transform into Super Saiyan God since he already has the power. The only method shown by that point to transform into Super Saiyan God is the ritual. All it says is that Goku doesn't need the ritual to transform into Super Saiyan God since he made the power his own.
Super Saiyan God never replaced Goku's base form. That's complete stupidity. If it was, he would have god ki in base, but he doesn't. Moot theory.
The Ozaru represented his hidden power which turned out to be his Saiyan heritage. It doesn't matter if Goku wasn't revealed to be a Saiyan by that point. It still represented his latent strength. Kid Goku could have tapped into certain amounts of his latent power in that scene.
In the panel I posted, the power that Goku used is shown reaching SSJG level. The panel makes no sense whatsoever otherwise. There would be no other reason for Toyotaro to parallel Base Goku punching Whis with SSJG Goku punching Whis.
Goku didn't one shot Trunks in the way you're implying. It was a sparring match. After Goku overwhelmed him and showed superiority, they stopped immediately since the point was to test how strong Goku was in comparison to Black. To top it off, Trunks wasn't even hurt when he got up from being "one shotted". Goku only used SSJG in the manga due to getting carried away. He can overwhelm Trunks using only SSJ3.
Black couldn't even one shot Trunks and he is stronger than SSJ3 Goku. If he made the power his own, why would he need to transform? What you're failing t realize is that this same thing happens in the Super anime. In the Super manga, we see Goku transform into a Super Saiyan God, and as Toriyama pointed out, he wouldn't need to if he had absorbed the power. I don't know how much clearer I can make this.
I didn't say it replaced his base form, I'm saying his base form is just as strong as Super Saiyan God, as was suggested by the Super anime. You're clearly suffering from cognitive dissonance, bud. Goku doesn't need to have God Ki to be as strong as Super Saiyan God, as pointed out by the Toriyama interview, and the cast in Super. Goku was just as strong as he was before, and the Z-fighters noted that he could be sensed after the power was absorbed.
How could his Saiyan heritage be referenced if Toriyama hadn't even thought of Saiyans at the time? It absolutely matters. It can't be a reference to his Saiyan heritage if Saiyans weren't even a thought in Toriyama's mind at the time. Ok, and? How do you figure? Again, you fail to notice this blatant double standard. If the Oozaru image references Goku's latent ability, why can't the image of Super Saiyan God be referencing his latent ability?
Were you not paying attention to the part where Goku literally took Trunks out in one punch? If he could have overwhelmed Trunks with Super Saiyan 3 like he did in the anime, he would have done it in the manga. It seems logic is a formality when dealing with your cognitive biases.
He was probably holding back.
Anyway, I'm done. It's clear your not interested in having an actual conversation. You're too busy trying to impose your point of view onto others. I frankly don't care how you choose to interpret all this information.
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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Dec 6 2016, 04:35 AM
Post #42
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- ThePrinceOfSaiyans
- Dec 6 2016, 03:59 AM
- SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
- Dec 6 2016, 03:38 AM
Incoherent conclusion. The interview mentions that Goku does not need to transform into Super Saiyan God since he already has the power. The only method shown by that point to transform into Super Saiyan God is the ritual. All it says is that Goku doesn't need the ritual to transform into Super Saiyan God since he made the power his own.
Super Saiyan God never replaced Goku's base form. That's complete stupidity. If it was, he would have god ki in base, but he doesn't. Moot theory.
The Ozaru represented his hidden power which turned out to be his Saiyan heritage. It doesn't matter if Goku wasn't revealed to be a Saiyan by that point. It still represented his latent strength. Kid Goku could have tapped into certain amounts of his latent power in that scene.
In the panel I posted, the power that Goku used is shown reaching SSJG level. The panel makes no sense whatsoever otherwise. There would be no other reason for Toyotaro to parallel Base Goku punching Whis with SSJG Goku punching Whis.
Goku didn't one shot Trunks in the way you're implying. It was a sparring match. After Goku overwhelmed him and showed superiority, they stopped immediately since the point was to test how strong Goku was in comparison to Black. To top it off, Trunks wasn't even hurt when he got up from being "one shotted". Goku only used SSJG in the manga due to getting carried away. He can overwhelm Trunks using only SSJ3.
Black couldn't even one shot Trunks and he is stronger than SSJ3 Goku.
If he made the power his own, why would he need to transform? What you're failing t realize is that this same thing happens in the Super anime. In the Super manga, we see Goku transform into a Super Saiyan God, and as Toriyama pointed out, he wouldn't need to if he had absorbed the power. I don't know how much clearer I can make this. I didn't say it replaced his base form, I'm saying his base form is just as strong as Super Saiyan God, as was suggested by the Super anime. You're clearly suffering from cognitive dissonance, bud. Goku doesn't need to have God Ki to be as strong as Super Saiyan God, as pointed out by the Toriyama interview, and the cast in Super. Goku was just as strong as he was before, and the Z-fighters noted that he could be sensed after the power was absorbed. How could his Saiyan heritage be referenced if Toriyama hadn't even thought of Saiyans at the time? It absolutely matters. It can't be a reference to his Saiyan heritage if Saiyans weren't even a thought in Toriyama's mind at the time. Ok, and? How do you figure? Again, you fail to notice this blatant double standard. If the Oozaru image references Goku's latent ability, why can't the image of Super Saiyan God be referencing his latent ability? Were you not paying attention to the part where Goku literally took Trunks out in one punch? If he could have overwhelmed Trunks with Super Saiyan 3 like he did in the anime, he would have done it in the manga. It seems logic is a formality when dealing with your cognitive biases. He was probably holding back. Anyway, I'm done. It's clear your not interested in having an actual conversation. You're too busy trying to impose your point of view onto others. I frankly don't care how you choose to interpret all this information. You haven't made a shred of sense in any of your posts. That's the only problem in communication here. Goku made the power his own. He doesn't need the ritual. "No need to transform" in that article refers to the ritual, not powering up into the form itself after he made the power his own. If he can transform into SSJG without the ritual, then he has effectively absorbed the power and made it his own.
Yes, you're clearly saying that SSJG replaced his base form since you said that Goku absorbing it's power means that he has the power in base(he doesn't) and that transforming into SSJG would make him no stronger. Stop the nonsense. I already said that Base Goku>SSJG Goku, so I don't know why you keep bringing that up.
I never said that Goku needs god ki to reach SSJG level. Stop with the strawmans.
Ozaru was Goku's latent power which ended up being due to his Saiyan heritage later in the story. Not hard to understand. Yes Kid Goku tapped into his latent power in that moment, which would be his Ozaru power. Yes, the silhouette of SSJG represents Base Goku reaching that level.
You ignored the part where I said that Goku got carried away in the manga where as he didn't in the anime. As I said already, he didn't take Trunks out. He overwhelmed him once, then they stopped sparring.
Black made it clear that he wanted to kill Trunks so no, the favorite blanket excuse of "he held back" doesn't apply here. SSJ3 Goku cannot one shot Trunks in an actual fight if someone stronger than him can't.
If you're done, that's fine. Learn to actually address the argument at hand instead of strawmanning and ignoring points.
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+ Ssj3vegito96
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Dec 6 2016, 04:58 AM
Post #43
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Idk what's so hard to understand. In the anime goku clearly absorbs it and his base power eventually becomes stronger than ssjg. This goes well with toriyama's interview. If goku absorbs the power level from ssjg then there's no reason to use the form. The manga's events contradict this completely. He actually uses ssjg as a form beyond ssj3 to knock out trunks and against hit. If he absorbed ssjg power level into base then he wouldn't need to do that. It's a simple concept. He didn't absorb the forms power he just kept the form itself. Don't overthink it
That scene with the ssjg silhouette behind goku didn't even happen in the dragon ball super manga. That was a promo for RF MOVIE. It applies to those rules. Goku absorbed ssjg in the movies so that scene worked. But clearly base goku cannot be as strong as ssjg in the DBS manga
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Spoiler: click to toggle Top 7 favorite dbz heroes: 1. Sometimes it goku sometimes it's vegeta 2. ^ 3. Teen gohan 4. Future trunks 5. Piccolo 6. Adult gohan 7. Bardock
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+ Pyrus
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Dec 6 2016, 05:17 AM
Post #44
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He's correct. That scene is not in the actual Super manga.
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Slifer
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Dec 6 2016, 05:19 AM
Post #45
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Edit: NVM. Ninja'd
Edited by Slifer, Dec 6 2016, 05:20 AM.
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