Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Rotation Advertisements



We hope you enjoy your visit to this forum.


If you are reading this then it means you are currently browsing the forum as a guest, we don’t limit any of the content posted from guests however if you join, you will have the ability to join the discussions! We are always happy to see new faces at this forum and we would like to hear your opinion, so why not register now? It doesn’t take long and you can get posting right away.


Click here to Register!

If you are having difficulties validating your account please email us at admin@dbzf.co.uk


If you're already a member please log in to your account:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Goku, Beerus, Whis and the core of Earth
Topic Started: Nov 29 2016, 10:14 PM (1,690 Views)
Sjk8
Member Avatar
史上最強の孫悟空

This is just a brief thread: I saw people over the internet being disappointed by what the last SOL episode offered to us, i.e. Goku at the Earth core.
First of all, I really don't understand why people got so worked up by something that happens in what is a filler (and very funny, at least for me) episode, anyway, just to give my 2 cents, I have to say that, on the contrary to what many guys seem to think, Goku, Beerus and Whis offered a great physical feat, and, what's more, they did it in a totally casual way.

Do you know that at the Earth core the pressure is 3.6 million times higher than the atmosferic one (3.6 millions atm vs 1 atm)? This means that Goku, suit or not (when he came back from the core he wasn't wearing it anymore, basically he just left it there), was like he was casually walking around under an oscene amount of gravitational force (Pressure = Force/Area), and the same of course is valid for Beerus and Whis: they were just standing there and chatting, like I would do when I sit in a bar. :D

So, at the end of the day this is a very nice small feat from a completely casual base Goku and from relaxed Beerus and Whis who had just finished eating tasteful crab.
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has even a chance to get its pants on
Posted Image Posted Image
Never argue with ignorant people, because they drag you down to their level and then they beat you with experience
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Goddess Ultimecia
Member Avatar


Sjk8
Nov 29 2016, 10:14 PM
This is just a brief thread: I saw people over the internet being disappointed by what the last SOL episode offered to us, i.e. Goku at the Earth core.
First of all, I really don't understand why people got so worked up by something that happens in what is a filler (and very funny, at least for me) episode, anyway, just to give my 2 cents, I have to say that, on the contrary to what many guys seem to think, Goku, Beerus and Whis offered a great physical feat, and, what's more, they did it in a totally casual way.

Do you know that at the Earth core the pressure is 3.6 million times higher than the atmosferic one (3.6 millions atm vs 1 atm)? This means that Goku, suit or not (when he came back from the core he wasn't wearing it anymore, basically he just left it there), was like he was casually walking around under an oscene amount of gravitational force (Pressure = Force/Area), and the same of course is valid for Beerus and Whis: they were just standing there and chatting, like I would do when I sit in a bar. :D

So, at the end of the day this is a very nice small feat from a completely casual base Goku and from relaxed Beerus and Whis who had just finished eating tasteful crab.
Unless it's them taking the universe compressed into a single weight being dropped on Goku and Goku saying all it gives him is ouchies or doesn't notice it, it's a nerfing of them.

On a slightly more serious note, people want to see things that are on the universal scale at this point, we had it way back in the BoG arc and it hasn't shown up since (afaik). Most people see it as anything less is unimpressive.
Posted Image

NinjaSushi Colouring
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Sjk8
Member Avatar
史上最強の孫悟空

Goddess Ultimecia
Nov 29 2016, 10:20 PM
Sjk8
Nov 29 2016, 10:14 PM
This is just a brief thread: I saw people over the internet being disappointed by what the last SOL episode offered to us, i.e. Goku at the Earth core.
First of all, I really don't understand why people got so worked up by something that happens in what is a filler (and very funny, at least for me) episode, anyway, just to give my 2 cents, I have to say that, on the contrary to what many guys seem to think, Goku, Beerus and Whis offered a great physical feat, and, what's more, they did it in a totally casual way.

Do you know that at the Earth core the pressure is 3.6 million times higher than the atmosferic one (3.6 millions atm vs 1 atm)? This means that Goku, suit or not (when he came back from the core he wasn't wearing it anymore, basically he just left it there), was like he was casually walking around under an oscene amount of gravitational force (Pressure = Force/Area), and the same of course is valid for Beerus and Whis: they were just standing there and chatting, like I would do when I sit in a bar. :D

So, at the end of the day this is a very nice small feat from a completely casual base Goku and from relaxed Beerus and Whis who had just finished eating tasteful crab.
Unless it's them taking the universe compressed into a single weight being dropped on Goku and Goku saying all it gives him is ouchies or doesn't notice it, it's a nerfing of them.

On a slightly more serious note, people want to see things that are on the universal scale at this point, we had it way back in the BoG arc and it hasn't shown up since (afaik). Most people see it as anything less is unimpressive.


Ok, I agree with that, but it's not that they were fighting or even being remotely serious: it was just a "slice of life" episode, and, if you ask me, them casually chatting at 3.6 millions G is quite an impressive feat.
Especially because Beerus was just standing there saying "Wtf are you doing here, man?" without even feeling it, and we know that a single slap from a Saiyan Beyond God Goku can harm him to an infinitely higher degree: just do the very simple math and you see which kind of force (and thus energy) output Goku can dish out. ;)
Edited by Sjk8, Nov 29 2016, 10:29 PM.
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has even a chance to get its pants on
Posted Image Posted Image
Never argue with ignorant people, because they drag you down to their level and then they beat you with experience
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Goddess Ultimecia
Member Avatar


Sjk8
Nov 29 2016, 10:28 PM
Goddess Ultimecia
Nov 29 2016, 10:20 PM
Sjk8
Nov 29 2016, 10:14 PM
This is just a brief thread: I saw people over the internet being disappointed by what the last SOL episode offered to us, i.e. Goku at the Earth core.
First of all, I really don't understand why people got so worked up by something that happens in what is a filler (and very funny, at least for me) episode, anyway, just to give my 2 cents, I have to say that, on the contrary to what many guys seem to think, Goku, Beerus and Whis offered a great physical feat, and, what's more, they did it in a totally casual way.

Do you know that at the Earth core the pressure is 3.6 million times higher than the atmosferic one (3.6 millions atm vs 1 atm)? This means that Goku, suit or not (when he came back from the core he wasn't wearing it anymore, basically he just left it there), was like he was casually walking around under an oscene amount of gravitational force (Pressure = Force/Area), and the same of course is valid for Beerus and Whis: they were just standing there and chatting, like I would do when I sit in a bar. :D

So, at the end of the day this is a very nice small feat from a completely casual base Goku and from relaxed Beerus and Whis who had just finished eating tasteful crab.
Unless it's them taking the universe compressed into a single weight being dropped on Goku and Goku saying all it gives him is ouchies or doesn't notice it, it's a nerfing of them.

On a slightly more serious note, people want to see things that are on the universal scale at this point, we had it way back in the BoG arc and it hasn't shown up since (afaik). Most people see it as anything less is unimpressive.


Ok, I agree with that, but it's not that they were fighting or even serious: it was just a "slice of life" episode, and, if you ask me, them casually chatting at 3.6 millions G is quite an impressive feat.
Especially because Beerus was just standing there saying "Wtf are you doing here, man?" without even feeling it, and we know that a single slap from a Saiyan Beyond God Goku can harm him to an infinitely higher degree: just do the very simple math and you see which kind of force (and thus energy) output Goku can dish out. ;)
Most people can't do that, and regardless, it's ultimately not that grand in scale as a universe.
Posted Image

NinjaSushi Colouring
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Sjk8
Member Avatar
史上最強の孫悟空

Goddess Ultimecia
Nov 29 2016, 10:29 PM
Sjk8
Nov 29 2016, 10:28 PM
Goddess Ultimecia
Nov 29 2016, 10:20 PM
Sjk8
Nov 29 2016, 10:14 PM
This is just a brief thread: I saw people over the internet being disappointed by what the last SOL episode offered to us, i.e. Goku at the Earth core.
First of all, I really don't understand why people got so worked up by something that happens in what is a filler (and very funny, at least for me) episode, anyway, just to give my 2 cents, I have to say that, on the contrary to what many guys seem to think, Goku, Beerus and Whis offered a great physical feat, and, what's more, they did it in a totally casual way.

Do you know that at the Earth core the pressure is 3.6 million times higher than the atmosferic one (3.6 millions atm vs 1 atm)? This means that Goku, suit or not (when he came back from the core he wasn't wearing it anymore, basically he just left it there), was like he was casually walking around under an oscene amount of gravitational force (Pressure = Force/Area), and the same of course is valid for Beerus and Whis: they were just standing there and chatting, like I would do when I sit in a bar. :D

So, at the end of the day this is a very nice small feat from a completely casual base Goku and from relaxed Beerus and Whis who had just finished eating tasteful crab.
Unless it's them taking the universe compressed into a single weight being dropped on Goku and Goku saying all it gives him is ouchies or doesn't notice it, it's a nerfing of them.

On a slightly more serious note, people want to see things that are on the universal scale at this point, we had it way back in the BoG arc and it hasn't shown up since (afaik). Most people see it as anything less is unimpressive.


Ok, I agree with that, but it's not that they were fighting or even serious: it was just a "slice of life" episode, and, if you ask me, them casually chatting at 3.6 millions G is quite an impressive feat.
Especially because Beerus was just standing there saying "Wtf are you doing here, man?" without even feeling it, and we know that a single slap from a Saiyan Beyond God Goku can harm him to an infinitely higher degree: just do the very simple math and you see which kind of force (and thus energy) output Goku can dish out. ;)
Most people can't do that, and regardless, it's ultimately not that grand in scale as a universe.


Well, then that's their problem, not mine. :blush:
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has even a chance to get its pants on
Posted Image Posted Image
Never argue with ignorant people, because they drag you down to their level and then they beat you with experience
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tinny
Member Avatar


The most major problem is definitely those shockwaves when it comes to thinking of these feats as impressive. Sure the core of the planet is hot but... Well it's no universe busting. Anything less than threatening multiple universes is just kind of anemic in comparison, granted taking universe busting strikes is different from taking temperature, but if someone's destroying mountains, that doesn't exactly make them tanking a flamethrower that impressive, it simply lacks the spectacle of the previous 'big' feat. And again, we know they punch hard enough to potentially risk an entire universe's inhabitants, the core of planet isn't impressive, hell some would say that Goku can already punch suns out because of the sphere of destruction thing back in the BoG arc, which makes this even less impressive in contrast.

And depending on who you ask and how you interpret these things, taking blasts from the core of the planet can have been a thing since Freeza blew up Namek, and in that case most of the threat of the planet busting has been from a lack of oxygen, not surviving the blast. This more clear but for many this is more just expected and a "well duh" than "Oh wow, they can truly do so much." Kind of like how no one is wowed because Goku uses massive weights when exercising, or holding a massive drum (admittedly I'm not sure if that's the correct name for this since it's on his back) of water when watering plants. It's not that impressive if the person in question can end the universe by essentially bro fisting another just as strong guy.
Edited by Tinny, Nov 29 2016, 10:40 PM.
Posted Image
Above signature created by Graffiti

Posted Image
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Sjk8
Member Avatar
史上最強の孫悟空

Tinny
Nov 29 2016, 10:31 PM
The most major problem is definitely those shockwaves when it comes to thinking of these feats as impressive. Sure the core of the planet is hot but... Well it's no universe busting. Anything less than threatening multiple universes is just kind of anemic in comparison, granted taking universe busting strikes is different from taking temperature, but if someone's destroying mountains, that doesn't exactly make them tanking a flamethrower that impressive, it simply lacks the spectacle of the previous 'big' feat. And again, we know they punch hard enough to potentially risk an entire universe's inhabitants, the core of planet isn't impressive, hell some would say that Goku can already punch suns out because of the sphere of destruction thing back in the BoG arc, which makes this even less impressive in contrast.


But the point is: this shouldn't have been impressive to begin with, nor should have been a feat at all, yet if you look at it with a little bit more of attention you can find something nice.
Not everything at this point should be of an universal scale or whatever, especially in slice of life episodes, which should be relaxing and funny.
I just remember of a certain Clark Kent who, in one of his showings, was saying that the pressure at the Earth core was squashing his head, yet Beerus stays there no-selling both pressure and temperature, and we know that Goku can make him scream with his bare hands. That's enough for me, I don't consider flashy images and/or showings to be everything in order to grasp the actual power of a character. ;)
Edited by Sjk8, Nov 29 2016, 10:44 PM.
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has even a chance to get its pants on
Posted Image Posted Image
Never argue with ignorant people, because they drag you down to their level and then they beat you with experience
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tinny
Member Avatar


Sjk8
Nov 29 2016, 10:43 PM
Tinny
Nov 29 2016, 10:31 PM
The most major problem is definitely those shockwaves when it comes to thinking of these feats as impressive. Sure the core of the planet is hot but... Well it's no universe busting. Anything less than threatening multiple universes is just kind of anemic in comparison, granted taking universe busting strikes is different from taking temperature, but if someone's destroying mountains, that doesn't exactly make them tanking a flamethrower that impressive, it simply lacks the spectacle of the previous 'big' feat. And again, we know they punch hard enough to potentially risk an entire universe's inhabitants, the core of planet isn't impressive, hell some would say that Goku can already punch suns out because of the sphere of destruction thing back in the BoG arc, which makes this even less impressive in contrast.


But the point is: this shouldn't have been impressive to begin with, nor should have been a feat at all, yet if you look at it with a little bit more of attention you can find something nice.
Not everything at this point should be of an universal scale or whatever, especially in slice of life episodes, which should be relaxing and funny.


I suppose that's a fair enough view on it in terms of how to think about it, that it shouldn't be considered a feat. With that said on a related note however I do think the universe busting probably hurt this show in the spectacle department ironically considering later feats, as in those meant for spectacle like so for the clearest comparison:
Posted Image

The fight overall manages to work because of Vegetto and Zamasu bouncing off each other thankfully but in terms of spectacle, despite being far better animated by actually lifting up rocks, it's... Well it seems kind of weak frankly, the only way to ramp up the spectacle even in real fights at this point is to endanger multiple universes, which DBS has seemed actually reluctant to do funny enough for a series that endangered the universe in it's first arc. Even the feats meant to be exciting are just kind of... Well you can't exactly use Vegetto's feats to show Vegetto's power, which let's admit it, sounds completely ridiculous when said out loud.

I will say, not everything has to be at a universal scale, but anything less than that is anemic for arcs that are meant to be exciting and use action, which is exactly the case for the last three arcs.
Posted Image
Above signature created by Graffiti

Posted Image
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Ssj3vegito96
Member Avatar


I don't think we will get the shockwaves. Idk any series consistent enough just throwing around that kind of collateral damage like its nothing

Look at zarbon and vegeta's shockwave and then look at how often there are shockwaves like that later. It's not that it didn't happen I think it's just too much to animate that kind of stuff all the time. Idk

@thread I didn't notice that goku wasn't wearing the suit when he got back. It's not universe level but it's pretty impressive for them to be casually doing this. Isn't the earth's core as hot as the sun's surface or something like that?
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Nov 30 2016, 12:03 AM.
IT'S CHEESE
Posted Image
Spoiler: click to toggle
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tinny
Member Avatar


Quote:
 
I don't think we will get the shockwaves. Idk any series consistent enough just throwing around that kind of collateral damage like its nothing

Look at zarbon and vegeta's shockwave and then look at how often there are shockwaves like that later. It's not that it didn't happen I think it's just too much to animate that kind of stuff all the time. Idk
At the same time, the biggest and most focused upon feats like Vegeta almost blowing up the planet are followed up by stuff like Freeza popping a planet with one finger, then Cell threatening a star, and Buu kind of didn't follow that up with anything, though that spirit bomb was easily the most ridiculously large one had seen up to that point.

But then we get to Super and Freeza we don't have anything reaching that point, Freeza blew up Earth easily but so did Buu, U6 has no appreciable feats to speak of, and Zamasu we pretty much get Zeno destroying a universe, but then we get comparatively little from Trunks or Vegetto, especially the latter given he literally recreates the BoG arc punch. I just feel like maybe they should have saved universe busting for later down the road. Maybe here even, but yeah. Feats aren't nearly as impressive anymore in general.
Edited by Tinny, Nov 30 2016, 12:26 AM.
Posted Image
Above signature created by Graffiti

Posted Image
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Ssj3vegito96
Member Avatar


U6 did have feats. Vegeta punches frost so hard that when frost hit the barrier that is supposed to tank blasts from champa, it broke. And goku blasts through it too

The zamasu arc unfortunately didn't have any feats close to universal level though

I mean arguably vegito was canceling out zamasu's punch. Plus the fact that shockwaves just don't appear all the time. Only when toriyama or whoever else is trying to depict their power
IT'S CHEESE
Posted Image
Spoiler: click to toggle
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tinny
Member Avatar


Ssj3vegito96
Nov 30 2016, 01:01 AM
U6 did have feats. Vegeta punches frost so hard that when frost hit the barrier that is supposed to tank blasts from champa, it broke. And goku blasts through it too

The zamasu arc unfortunately didn't have any feats close to universal level though

I mean arguably vegito was canceling out zamasu's punch. Plus the fact that shockwaves just don't appear all the time. Only when toriyama or whoever else is trying to depict their power
But how do we know that's more impressive than destroying the universe? Beerus can fire off planet destroying blasts all the time I mean you can arguably Clint it, but it's so vague that it's really like Buu destroying Earth, the only reason we know it's stronger is because it's being used on and comes up against our heroes who are stronger than they were last time.

I wouldn't say so considering rocks and debris flew up from the clash, that's not a very effective cancellation. And sure, but again, they show their power plenty through clear feats, all of which are anemic in comparison to that one feat from the beginning of the arc. Hell if it weren't for statements I'd think ssjg Goku is still the strongest fighter sans the gods.
Posted Image
Above signature created by Graffiti

Posted Image
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
+ Ssj3vegito96
Member Avatar


Well if we consider ssjg goku was able to shoot a kamehameha that had universe destroying power...champa's casual blasts should be universe level. Hell, ssj1 goku at this point should casually be dishing out universe level blasts

So since the dome tanked champa's blast and said he wouldn't expect anything to break it then vegeta cracking it through physical means is very impressive. It could just be Galaxy+ level though since piccolo was able to blast a hole through it too. I say galaxy because I wouldn't go below that considering how strong champa's casual blasts are and the fact that he wanted to make sure it wouldn't break. I'd rather it not be universe level because I doubt piccolo is at ssjg level yet

Yeah I know it sounds silly but that's honestly how I see how strong they are at least in the anime
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Nov 30 2016, 05:30 PM.
IT'S CHEESE
Posted Image
Spoiler: click to toggle
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tinny
Member Avatar


Sorry for taking long.

I see what you mean, but the biggest problem here is that you are here trying to convince me in the first place about Champa's barrier. It's not self evident, we know it's that strong because it was set up to stop our characters who are this strong, without the BoG arc how would we be able to really tell how powerful this is? It's still ultimately just scaling off of the BoG arc "ssjg Goku could do this, so Champa's casual blasts can do this and the shield was put up to deal with that."

Champa's shield is stronger because it was meant for our main characters who in the BoG arc did that. It's not a feat on it's own, it only works when you remember that ssjg Goku and Beerus threatened the universe. This also applies to Zamasu, we only know he's capable of threatening the universe (before he became the sky or something) because he can fight with our main characters who once did that. In terms of pure feats, DBS has kind of already ended with the BoG arc, anything from henceforth can only serve to nerf them or just do nothing as a feat (like the barrier, it's got universe level durability or galaxy level durability because of Goku's feats in BoG, which mean that you'd need something like that to stop it, without taking into account the BoG arc you really have no reason to assume it's universe level) unless they get back to threatening universes.

I should say I can't blame later arcs for not being able to up the ante on these, universe busting is generally where stuff ends for a reason, it's just kind of almost impossible to go over universe level on purpose. It's certainly gotta be hard to portray it in any meaningful way and for the most part I do not blame them for "scaling down." Personally I think the Vegetto vs Zamasu punch looks far better and feels more epic than Beerus vs Goku punch despite the former being undoubtedly the worse feat compared to the latter.
Edited by Tinny, Dec 4 2016, 02:25 AM.
Posted Image
Above signature created by Graffiti

Posted Image
Member Online View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
0 users reading this topic
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Enjoy forums? Start your own community for free.
Learn More · Sign-up Now
« Previous Topic · Dragon Ball Super · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Theme Designed by McKee91