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Goku vs frost manga power levels?
Topic Started: Nov 29 2016, 06:52 PM (4,532 Views)
+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans
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魔王子

Son Goku: 300,000,000
-Super Saiyan Full Power: 15,000,000,000

Frost: 90,000,000
-Third Form: 300,000,000
-Final Form: 9,000,000,000
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We don't really know how strong Trunks is either, to be fair. We know he trained with the Z Sword, and before that had been training everyday since the Cell Games. It's possible he got stronger during his stint against Black too, since that was a whole year's worth of encounters.

Trunks (Black Saga) > Trunks (post-Z Sword) > Trunks (post-Cell Games)

I mean, that's a lot of time and a rather noteworthy power-up. Dabura must've been a lot stronger in the future than he was in the present timeline.

But then, is Super Saiyan 2's multiplier still 2x? Because Trunks is initially slightly stronger than SSj2 Goku, but then he's about on par with SSj3 Goku when he goes to full power, which would be a 4x boost if we keep with SEG multipliers. :o_O: :x
Edited by Pyrus, Nov 30 2016, 01:30 AM.
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At the moment trunks is training with vegeta so we don't know how strong he's going to be

But when he turns ssj2 against goku, whis says he has a small advantage over goku and goku compares trunks to ssj2 teen gohan. Then trunks powers up and gets nearly the same boost as goku does when he turns ssj3. Trunks is still stronger than ssj3 by a little so goku resorts to knocking trunks out by snapping into ssjg

So we know everyone is still buu saga tier at this point

As for trunks's ssj2.... Maybe he mastered ssj2 and that's what he meant by saying he wasn't satisfied with ssj2 either? Also the fact that trunks had suppressed himself and wasn't working at full power as ssj2 right away. We know they can't suppress themselves much unless they've mastered the form, right? I think that's why goku was at full power as a ssj2 right away and trunks could still charge up

As for their gains in the ROSAT for 3 years... Gains are not consistent. Goku trained for 7 years in other world and didn't get that much stronger. Plus like I said a lot of their focus on learning God ki with whis drained their potential maybe so the ROSAT was to squeeze out everything left

@prince But isn't 300,000,000 too low if goku is stronger than android 17/18? And isn't there about an 80x gap between third and fourth form? Well there was for Frieza at least
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Nov 30 2016, 02:05 AM.
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Goku's comment about Gohan may have been because that's the last big benchmark Trunks would've known. Trunks wouldn't know about any of Majin Boo's forms, so it'd be useless for Goku to mention that sort of guy directly to him. So it's a bit of an inconclusive statement, I think.

I basically agree with the gist of the other things you said, though.
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Ssj3vegito96
Nov 30 2016, 01:45 AM
@prince But isn't 300,000,000 too low if goku is stronger than android 17/18? And isn't there about an 80x gap between third and fourth form? Well there was for Frieza at least
Was it ever implied that base Goku and Vegeta are stronger than No. 17 in the Super manga? Regarding Frost, Frost never bulked up, so I figure his fourth form would be the equivalent of Freeza's 50% power.
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Freeza's forms weren't power ups, they were caps he chose for himself to 'control his power' and perhaps to deceive potential threats. There's no reason why Frost has to have the same multipliers for his forms, he could have just capped them differently.

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Never mind
Edited by Son-Goku, Nov 30 2016, 04:57 AM.
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Pyrus
Nov 30 2016, 02:51 AM
Goku's comment about Gohan may have been because that's the last big benchmark Trunks would've known. Trunks wouldn't know about any of Majin Boo's forms, so it'd be useless for Goku to mention that sort of guy directly to him. So it's a bit of an inconclusive statement, I think.

I basically agree with the gist of the other things you said, though.
there's no indication they got a lot stronger but I guess it would make sense with the 3 years in ROSAT. Gains have never been consistent so it's hard to say they had to have gotten a lot stronger but I don't really see a problem with saying they are a lot stronger. You make a good point regarding goku's comment about gohan. I didn't think about it that way. It's hard to say how much stronger though. Which is not really a bad thing is it? There's no way to tell where they stand in the buu saga then. It bugs me how vague it is but it's not a big deal I guess

True. But at the time of the U6 tournament is there any indication they got a lot stronger after the ROSAT? Gains aren't consistent so we can't just say they had to have gotten a lot stronger can we? There's nothing that tells us they're way beyond their buu saga tier now. I don't really have a problem with that though

ThePrinceOfSaiyans
Nov 30 2016, 03:04 AM
Ssj3vegito96
Nov 30 2016, 01:45 AM
@prince But isn't 300,000,000 too low if goku is stronger than android 17/18? And isn't there about an 80x gap between third and fourth form? Well there was for Frieza at least
Was it ever implied that base Goku and Vegeta are stronger than No. 17 in the Super manga? Regarding Frost, Frost never bulked up, so I figure his fourth form would be the equivalent of Freeza's 50% power.
I thought we had evidence for base goku>androids in the Z manga already? Idc actually as long as we agree he's above Frieza it doesn't matter

Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Nov 30 2016, 06:21 AM.
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I also want to point out that the stronger you have base goku and vegeta during the tournament saga the stronger you have cabba right? Currently, assuming they didn't get that stronger in the ROSAT, I have base cabba at most at cell games base saiyans since one kick from base vegeta(after his rough fight with magetta) practically ended the fight
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滅Are you frightened?

Base Goku: 700,000,000
-Super Saiyan: 35,000,000,000

First form Frost: 695,000,000
-2nd: 1,390,000,000
-3rd: 2,780,000,000
---holding back: 700,050,050
-4th: 15,000,000,000

Something I cooked up over a glance of the manga. I assumed 3rd form Frost was holding back though given his statements once he thought that amount of power would be good enough to beat base Goku. His increases are 2x each one barring the 4th, which is roughly 5 times his 3rd.
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Ssj3vegito96
Nov 30 2016, 06:20 AM
ThePrinceOfSaiyans
Nov 30 2016, 03:04 AM
Ssj3vegito96
Nov 30 2016, 01:45 AM
@prince But isn't 300,000,000 too low if goku is stronger than android 17/18? And isn't there about an 80x gap between third and fourth form? Well there was for Frieza at least
Was it ever implied that base Goku and Vegeta are stronger than No. 17 in the Super manga? Regarding Frost, Frost never bulked up, so I figure his fourth form would be the equivalent of Freeza's 50% power.
I thought we had evidence for base goku>androids in the Z manga already? Idc actually as long as we agree he's above Frieza it doesn't matter

I get around that with the Essence of Super Saiyan theory. Most people like to bloat the scaling and or reduce the Super Saiyan multipliers, but I just assume the base Saiyans are below Freeza, up to Battle of Gods, but can increase their base strength with a fraction of their Super Saiyan energy. After all, Goku utilized Super Saiyan energy without transforming in episode 195.
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Nov 30 2016, 03:10 PM.
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I prefer to not use filler but I see what you're saying
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ThePrinceOfSaiyans
Nov 30 2016, 03:09 PM
Ssj3vegito96
Nov 30 2016, 06:20 AM
ThePrinceOfSaiyans
Nov 30 2016, 03:04 AM
Ssj3vegito96
Nov 30 2016, 01:45 AM
@prince But isn't 300,000,000 too low if goku is stronger than android 17/18? And isn't there about an 80x gap between third and fourth form? Well there was for Frieza at least
Was it ever implied that base Goku and Vegeta are stronger than No. 17 in the Super manga? Regarding Frost, Frost never bulked up, so I figure his fourth form would be the equivalent of Freeza's 50% power.
I thought we had evidence for base goku>androids in the Z manga already? Idc actually as long as we agree he's above Frieza it doesn't matter

I get around that with the Essence of Super Saiyan theory. Most people like to bloat the scaling and or reduce the Super Saiyan multipliers, but I just assume the base Saiyans are below Freeza, up to Battle of Gods, but can increase their base strength with a fraction of their Super Saiyan energy. After all, Goku utilized Super Saiyan energy without transforming in episode 195.
If they need the SSJ form to access that power though, how does it make sense that they can access it in their base form? The max power of their base form should be whatever they can handle without using a technique like Kaioken to forcibly strain it.
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Nagito Komaeda
Nov 30 2016, 05:19 PM
ThePrinceOfSaiyans
Nov 30 2016, 03:09 PM
Ssj3vegito96
Nov 30 2016, 06:20 AM
ThePrinceOfSaiyans
Nov 30 2016, 03:04 AM
Ssj3vegito96
Nov 30 2016, 01:45 AM
@prince But isn't 300,000,000 too low if goku is stronger than android 17/18? And isn't there about an 80x gap between third and fourth form? Well there was for Frieza at least
Was it ever implied that base Goku and Vegeta are stronger than No. 17 in the Super manga? Regarding Frost, Frost never bulked up, so I figure his fourth form would be the equivalent of Freeza's 50% power.
I thought we had evidence for base goku>androids in the Z manga already? Idc actually as long as we agree he's above Frieza it doesn't matter

I get around that with the Essence of Super Saiyan theory. Most people like to bloat the scaling and or reduce the Super Saiyan multipliers, but I just assume the base Saiyans are below Freeza, up to Battle of Gods, but can increase their base strength with a fraction of their Super Saiyan energy. After all, Goku utilized Super Saiyan energy without transforming in episode 195.
If they need the SSJ form to access that power though, how does it make sense that they can access it in their base form? The max power of their base form should be whatever they can handle without using a technique like Kaioken to forcibly strain it.
I don't even see why this is a question when we've seen Goku do it. We have a practical example in episode 195. A fraction of their Super Saiyan energy merely acts as an amplifier. It goes a long way in explaining things that otherwise don't make sense, I.E. base Goku keeping up with a weighted Paikuhan in the Ano Yo-Ichi Budokai.
EDIT: BTW, I acknowledge this is just head canon. Obviously the power scaling just wasn't thought out to a huge degree in filler.
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Nov 30 2016, 05:43 PM.
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ThePrinceOfSaiyans
Nov 30 2016, 05:36 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Nov 30 2016, 05:19 PM
ThePrinceOfSaiyans
Nov 30 2016, 03:09 PM
Ssj3vegito96
Nov 30 2016, 06:20 AM
ThePrinceOfSaiyans
Nov 30 2016, 03:04 AM
Ssj3vegito96
Nov 30 2016, 01:45 AM
@prince But isn't 300,000,000 too low if goku is stronger than android 17/18? And isn't there about an 80x gap between third and fourth form? Well there was for Frieza at least
Was it ever implied that base Goku and Vegeta are stronger than No. 17 in the Super manga? Regarding Frost, Frost never bulked up, so I figure his fourth form would be the equivalent of Freeza's 50% power.
I thought we had evidence for base goku>androids in the Z manga already? Idc actually as long as we agree he's above Frieza it doesn't matter

I get around that with the Essence of Super Saiyan theory. Most people like to bloat the scaling and or reduce the Super Saiyan multipliers, but I just assume the base Saiyans are below Freeza, up to Battle of Gods, but can increase their base strength with a fraction of their Super Saiyan energy. After all, Goku utilized Super Saiyan energy without transforming in episode 195.
If they need the SSJ form to access that power though, how does it make sense that they can access it in their base form? The max power of their base form should be whatever they can handle without using a technique like Kaioken to forcibly strain it.
I don't even see why this is a question when we've seen Goku do it. We have a practical example in episode 195. A fraction of their Super Saiyan energy merely acts as an amplifier. It goes a long way in explaining things that otherwise don't make sense, I.E. base Goku keeping up with a weighted Paikuhan in the Ano Yo-Ichi Budokai.
That's all good for filler, but why would DBZ filler be canon to the Super manga?
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