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How vague the canon of DBS is
Topic Started: Nov 29 2016, 01:05 AM (2,031 Views)
+ Ssj3vegito96
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Idk where exactly this thread will go lol. I'm just pouring out my thoughts right now and want your opinions so bare with me if it gets random

I was wondering... If so many people, including myself, prefer the manga over the anime, why don't we discuss the manga more?

It's not like it would necessarily be a waste

Think about it this way

Canon in dragon ball has always been kind of vague, especially Super

You could argue that the anime is "more canon" and the manga is to be disregarded because the anime is the main product. It did come first and have a lot more news coverage. Like many other spin offs and promos, the DBS manga is released through v jump

But at the same time there's a lot going for the manga too

1. There's no official statement saying it's purely for promoting the anime
2. Toriyama likely has more involvement with the manga than the anime
3. The RF manga was clearly a promo for the movie because it didn't finish the whole story(it was only like a third of the movie. Probably to avoid spoilers) and it was only released through v jump at least to my knowledge. The Super manga isn't like that. It's telling the same whole story and is being released outside V jump through Viz

The anime and manga are interpretations of toriyama's outline. So they are on the same level in that regard. So what is canon in DBS? Is the filler non canon? Which interpretation holds more weight? Does the anime because it's likely the "main product"? Or does the manga because it gets more input from toriyama making it more authentic?

I think that it's fair to say the manga could be to promote the anime. However I think it's unfair to completely disregard it and toss it aside since there's clearly more going for it than just promoting the anime

But that's just me. The point I'm trying to make is that I believe that it really does come down to preference when deciding between manga and anime

But I do propose that we discuss the manga more often. I think there would be a lot less upset. I know there's a lot less to discuss since it isn't as far as along but with the latest chapter I think it's time we start giving are thoughts on it

What do you think?
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Nov 29 2016, 01:08 AM.
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Something I want to add

New information from toyotaro revealed that he gets info from toei and from here on out he will the source of info

Make of that what you will
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Nov 29 2016, 01:45 AM.
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Kblo247
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Original press release reads:
In addition to his role as series creator, Akira Toriyama is also credited for the "original story & character design concepts" of the new anime directed by Kimitoshi Chioka.


So yeah the anime is Canon and to be exact the manga was listed as "an adaptation of the anime" when it was announced initially.

That means he puts his spin on what the anime originally does which is why it is so far hehind . The anime is the source material

Honestly though who ultimately can say what is and isn't Canon is toei, not toriyama, as they own the actual property and rights including all characters associated with the Dragon ball series and story. it is their property not Toriyamas, not anyone else
Edited by Kblo247, Nov 29 2016, 01:50 AM.
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+ Pyrus
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I prefer the manga and have started using it in versus discussions rather than the anime. It's faster-paced, but it makes a lot more sense and I haven't had to really question anything yet. Until there's an official statement by Toriyama on which product takes precedent in these kinds of discussions, I think I'm going to continue going by the manga's take on things.

The manga is going to be leading the way soon enough, so how is it going be "adapting" the anime?
Edited by Pyrus, Nov 29 2016, 01:53 AM.
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Kblo doesn't the GT credits say the same thing for toriyama?

Wanted to add this too

And toyotaro also said that he goes off toriyama's outline. So... Idk we keep hearing different things from his guy lol

Speaking of the manga, I want to ask you two about how you put the manga together. I hear Toriyama-sensei checks the storyboards for each chapter.
Toriyama:
That’s right.
Toyotarō:
Since Chapter 1 I’ve used Toriyama-sensei‘s plot as a basis, but have been allowed to expand on it.

Toriyama:
It’s better that way.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/dragon-ball-super-manga-vol-1-tori-toyo-interview-web-version/
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Nov 29 2016, 01:57 AM.
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Also this. Just saw this for the first time. It's from the same link

Back when Toriyama-sensei was drawing the manga, the animators would use his manga panels as reference, imitating the composition and things like that. And now it seems that the animators are likewise using Toyotarō-sensei‘s manga as reference.
Toriyama:
Oh, that’s good! That should keep them on track!
Toyotarō:
Really?… I still can’t believe I lucked into this job (sweat).
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Nov 29 2016, 02:13 AM.
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So...the manga is an adaptation of the anime, which is referencing the manga, which is...f*** it.

I'll just be glad when the manga pulls ahead.
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LOL

I guess what happened is that toyotaro was given info regarding toriyama's outline from toei and then he draws the manga which is what they reference?

And what toyotaro means when they will be getting info from him from now on is info regarding toriyama's plot?

Idk haha

Point proven. Either can be considered canon
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Nov 29 2016, 02:30 AM.
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Kblo247
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Pyrus
Nov 29 2016, 02:14 AM
So...the manga is an adaptation of the anime, which is referencing the manga, which is...f*** it.

I'll just be glad when the manga pulls ahead.
Probably why they made a Dragon ball room to have some sort of order and structure for everybody. Toei, Funi, and Toriyama all say gt is the side story. And based off the official release of things when super is announced and those interviews once can guess that Toriyama writes and constructs the plot, Toei gets it and creates the meaningful dialogue and structure of supef, then they give it to AF Toyble who traces important parts and fixed animation errors for his manga adaptation.

The main point though is this isn't written like Z with manga going first and Toei adding in filler or movies to make the pace work for the next volume release. Super is released with its animated material first and the manga follows. Had they scooter ROF over using the incomplete movie manga they would really be behind the show in pace which is why they likely didn't adapt it.

Toyble gets to adapt it to what he wants with his own AF style such as Goku using the red God form which he isn't shown to do even do in the mlvies . Tori used mailman which is legendary and can service. Essentially both say goku has a shot to beat hit and agree vegeta would have had he not wasted his transformation stamina on training a saiyan.

As for the main arghment , there is no telling how much of the anime has been made already so the manga could very well still be adapting it if Toyble see it before it's released in its raw form .
Edited by Kblo247, Nov 29 2016, 03:07 AM.
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So it's like this?

Toriyama gives plot to toei who gives it to toyotaro who then draws the manga which is what toei refers to

But now toyotaro is saying this:
etween getting the outline and the final phase, what is the most difficult part of making the manga?

What I receive from Toriyama is literally words on paper, without drawings or anything.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interview/2016-10-26/dragon-ball-super-toyotarou/.107579

He also says this

What is your relationship with the Dragon Ball Super anime?

At this point, I'm not very involved with it. I think going forward, I'll be more involved, but at this point in time, I actually receive more information from the anime team than I give to them. The anime is a little bit further along than I am, but in the near future I'll be ahead, so the information will be going back to them. Regardless, we'll continue to support one another as we go forward.

So who gives to who first depends on who's ahead
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Since it’s Akira Toriyama-sensei doing the original story, the manga has a slightly different approach than the TV anime, which results in a different kind of production. I hope you all enjoy that aspect of it for volume 2!! And I hope you keep reading!!

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2016/11/30/dragon-ball-super-manga-collected-edition-vol-2-cover-art-toyotaro-comment/

New comment from toyotaro. Make of it what you will

To me it sounds like the manga is not just promo and is its own separate legit thing
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Goddess Ultimecia
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Sounds to me like this is all very and incredibly confusing.
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