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Post ROSAT gotenks
Topic Started: Nov 16 2016, 06:43 AM (1,863 Views)
+ Ssj3vegito96
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I know most people agree base gotenks post ROSAT>pre ROSAT ssj gotenks but by how much exactly? I know it has to be by a considerable amount since piccolo didn't think pre ROSAT gotenks would have a chance against super buu

So what's the consensus on how much stronger exactly? Like 2x or 3x?
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+ Pyrus
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2x is good enough for me.
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StrenuousSpider
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I always heard post base equals pre ssj. So 50x.
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+ Ssj3vegito96
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Nah. His base surpassed his previous ssj. Reason is that piccolo didn't think his pre rosat ssj would do anything against super buu. When he saw base gotenks he was confident in him even though he didn't know they could turn ssj after the fusion
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Thiln
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Piccolo seemed grossly mistaken about various estimated strength projections. If he truly had a grasp of what Super Buu's actual power was like then he would be despairing throughout the whole encounter in the RoSaT. Immediately he would have destroyed the door as Buu is still vastly superior to SSJ Gotenks. False hopes wouldn't be warranted.

Pertaining to the original question - I believe Base Gotenks after training is equivalent to his pre-SSJ iteration. It seems like a straightforward quantitative leap without diverging too far off into guesstimations.
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+ Saiyan Paladin
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I have him close to his pre-RoSaT Super Saiyan as well.
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Thiln
Nov 19 2016, 07:30 PM
Piccolo seemed grossly mistaken about various estimated strength projections. If he truly had a grasp of what Super Buu's actual power was like then he would be despairing throughout the whole encounter in the RoSaT.
He only seemed to have trouble accurately estimating Buu... which was the same for basically everybody. His Gotenks estimations were never shown to be incorrect.

@Topic
Personally, I have [Post RoSaT] Gotenks a step beyond his [Pre-RoSaT] SSJ self.
[Pre-RoSaT] SSJ Gotenks stood no chance, [Post RoSaT] Gotenks gave Piccolo some hope.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

Significantly enough and I'll just let you decide what significant enough means.

Piccolo made it very clear that before entering the ROSAT, Gotenks had no chance against Boo. He was so desperate that Piccolo went as far as to tell Boo to kill more humans just to buy them a little bit more time. He tried to throw in an hour, he tried to walk the long way to the ROSAT, he did everything he could to stall for time. By the time he reached the ROSAT, he was begging for a miracle.

You don't have a borderline freakout like that and then start talking about how Base Gotenks might actually beat Super Boo if he's still weaker than he was before.
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TheACE
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The Last GT Fighter

Lol i didn't have him much stronger at all really. All i really read was that he probably spent most of his time Ascending past Super Saiyan and just figured his powers up was just incidental
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SSB Vegito
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Should be a lot stronger , judging by Piccolo's reaction, somewhere between 1,5 and 2x.
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* Ketchup Revenge
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"

I find it ridiculous that Goten and Trunks are suggested to have increased 50x in just a few hours of training.

The only way that could've happened is if they trained ridiculously hard and got a zenkai, by which given the state of their bodies when we see them again, this likely didn't happen.

2-3x seems fine to me. Unless for some reason, transforming after Fusion creates a far stronger transformed state.
Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Nov 21 2016, 11:25 PM.
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Goddess Ultimecia
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Not sure how people are all that surprised here. We've had Piccolo go from a Battle Power of around 1500 to likely around Nail to much higher than him... by literally meditating on King Kai's planet lol.

We've had Freeza going from his normal self to God level in about four months, bringing his First Form to above an enraged SSJ Gohan.

An unbelief in something does not mean it didn't happen, it's your incredulity versus, in this case, Piccolo's ability to sense Gotenks from before training, and after training. The story proper trumps personal feelings on the matter, and it's clear. SSJ Gotenks from before training stood no chance. Base Gotenks after fusing gives Piccolo some hope, and at that point, we know and Piccolo knows that fusions can't transform after fusing, so it's not like he was hoping they'd pop into SSJ.
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"

Goddess Ultimecia
Nov 21 2016, 11:33 PM
Not sure how people are all that surprised here. We've had Piccolo go from a Battle Power of around 1500 to likely around Nail to much higher than him... by literally meditating on King Kai's planet lol.

We've had Freeza going from his normal self to God level in about four months, bringing his First Form to above an enraged SSJ Gohan.

An unbelief in something does not mean it didn't happen, it's your incredulity versus, in this case, Piccolo's ability to sense Gotenks from before training, and after training. The story proper trumps personal feelings on the matter, and it's clear. SSJ Gotenks from before training stood no chance. Base Gotenks after fusing gives Piccolo some hope, and at that point, we know and Piccolo knows that fusions can't transform after fusing, so it's not like he was hoping they'd pop into SSJ.
Yes, but his training was over a period of months (minimum weeks), not hours which would've been real-time for Goten and Trunks.

And Freeza is already stated to be a mutant, he was born with an unnaturally high battle power. It was stated that if he decided to train, he might've even surpassed Beerus.
Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Nov 21 2016, 11:39 PM.
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Ketchup Revenge
Nov 21 2016, 11:36 PM
Goddess Ultimecia
Nov 21 2016, 11:33 PM
Not sure how people are all that surprised here. We've had Piccolo go from a Battle Power of around 1500 to likely around Nail to much higher than him... by literally meditating on King Kai's planet lol.

We've had Freeza going from his normal self to God level in about four months, bringing his First Form to above an enraged SSJ Gohan.

An unbelief in something does not mean it didn't happen, it's your incredulity versus, in this case, Piccolo's ability to sense Gotenks from before training, and after training. The story proper trumps personal feelings on the matter, and it's clear. SSJ Gotenks from before training stood no chance. Base Gotenks after fusing gives Piccolo some hope, and at that point, we know and Piccolo knows that fusions can't transform after fusing, so it's not like he was hoping they'd pop into SSJ.
Yes, but his training was over a period of months (minimum weeks), not hours.

And Freeza is already stated to be a mutant, he was born with an unnaturally high battle power. It was stated that if he decided to train, he might've even surpassed Beerus.
And Goten and Trunks aren't incredible? The latter trained with Vegeta sure, but Goten was able to keep relatively around Trunks level by either play fighting every now and then with Trunks or just taking little lessons from his Mother. And mind, they're 7 and 8 respectively, and could individually fry Freeza with a casual blast in a transformed state. These kids are far from the norm.
Edited by Goddess Ultimecia, Nov 21 2016, 11:41 PM.
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"

Goddess Ultimecia
Nov 21 2016, 11:41 PM
Ketchup Revenge
Nov 21 2016, 11:36 PM
Goddess Ultimecia
Nov 21 2016, 11:33 PM
Not sure how people are all that surprised here. We've had Piccolo go from a Battle Power of around 1500 to likely around Nail to much higher than him... by literally meditating on King Kai's planet lol.

We've had Freeza going from his normal self to God level in about four months, bringing his First Form to above an enraged SSJ Gohan.

An unbelief in something does not mean it didn't happen, it's your incredulity versus, in this case, Piccolo's ability to sense Gotenks from before training, and after training. The story proper trumps personal feelings on the matter, and it's clear. SSJ Gotenks from before training stood no chance. Base Gotenks after fusing gives Piccolo some hope, and at that point, we know and Piccolo knows that fusions can't transform after fusing, so it's not like he was hoping they'd pop into SSJ.
Yes, but his training was over a period of months (minimum weeks), not hours.

And Freeza is already stated to be a mutant, he was born with an unnaturally high battle power. It was stated that if he decided to train, he might've even surpassed Beerus.
And Goten and Trunks aren't incredible? The latter trained with Vegeta sure, but Goten was able to keep relatively around Trunks level by either play fighting every now and then with Trunks or just taking little lessons from his Mother. And mind, they're 7 and 8 respectively, and could individually fry Freeza with a casual blast in a transformed state. These kids are far from the norm.
I'm not denying that they have remarkable power, but 50x without zenkai is ridiculous, even by Saiyan standards.

That's even inflated by zenkai standards. Goku's Freeza Arc Boost wasn't even that much, and the only reason he got the zenkai in that limited amount of time was because he had a machine to drastically reduce the time it took him to heal from his injuries.
Even if they do get zenkai, you need to have time to heal from that in order to get the boost.

The same can be said about his gains during his trip to Namek, the only difference is that he had senzu to insta-heal him.

We can also say the same thing about Vegeta and Gohan. Their gains in that amount of time are attributed to senzu and Dende's healing ability.

Goten and Trunks didn't have senzu beans or any way of instant healing.
Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Nov 21 2016, 11:55 PM.
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