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Why? Link is the ultimate swordsman and has great skill with the sword, plus that he is the hero.

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Zelda has great skill with both bow and magic

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plus that she's the reincarnation of goddess Hylia!

Goddess Ultimecia

Nov 9 2016, 05:22 PM

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plus that she's the reincarnation of goddess Hylia!

While neat, let's us not forget that Rinoa has within her the Sorceress Power, literally the cast skin of the Creator God Hyne.

Edit: Just in terms of divinity, Rinoa has some form of it within her.

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While true that he is a good, even great swordsman. Let's not forget that Squall has mastered the Gunblade. A notoriously difficult weapon to even use, let alone effectively. It functions as a vibroblade, allowing the ability to amp its cutting ability. Squall has been trained since a kid to be a literal Mercenary Supersoldier. Being able to take the fight to an entire invading army of Galbadians with no more than three others of his kind.

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Definitely, but Rinoa's Dead Fantasy incarnation not only has a ranged weapon (her Valkyrie Wheel) but she also makes use of a Gunblade for close range combat, on top of her use of flight via angel wings and the magical ability to summon tornadoes, use telekinesis, and literally throw multiple people across the world at once.

TheACE

 

Agreed. But Link has fought off entire occupations across Hyrule and Islands several times over too. He's not only a master swordsman who has wielded multiple magical blades with ease (Guilded Sword, Master Sword, Great Fairy Sword, etc.) But he also has a massive arsenal of versatile long range and short range special weapons, including fused bomb, fire or ice arrows, light arrows on occassion, mystically enhanced boomerangs and the like. His natural ability combined with his experience should be sufficient to match Squall's skill and possibly over come it with his versatility and unpredictability.

TheACE

 

This is also true. She likely has a mobility advantage over Zelda's base form given her flight. I think this can be countered by Zelda's Shiek Transformation, which would give her enhanced speed and teleportation to combat flight speed. She can transform at will, and Zelda's Smash Bros enduced mastery of the goddesses techniques should help her at range. In addition Hyrule Warriors has added Baton weapons for Zelda to wield thay do give her some aerokinesis and electrokienesis, hough i dont think her mastery is equivalent to that of Rinoa's. Her holding the Triforce of Wisdom enhances her abilties further, especially her Wisdom, which makes her a superior ruler. Her limits aren't very clearly defined as she is a non-combat type and usually supports link with her magic, archery and political sensibilities.

TheACE

 

The big question is which pair would have the least casualties. I think Link may have a soft edge over Squall, but Rinoa likely maintains the same edge over Zelda, at a possibly higher level. If rhe Final Fantasy pair can seperate the First Couple of RPG gaming, then they have a much higher likelyhood of winning. If Zelda's strategy and Links tenacity, aided by full Triforce power, can keep the two of them within range of one another while they face their foes, then combined they should actually have the edge, given ingrained centuries of team work over several different dimensions and timelines. The versatility of team Triforce gives me reason to lean towards them, though the lack of concrete feats Zelda has leaves much up to speculation.

Goddess Ultimecia

Nov 9 2016, 08:04 PM

TheACE

 

Agreed. But Link has fought off entire occupations across Hyrule and Islands several times over too. He's not only a master swordsman who has wielded multiple magical blades with ease (Guilded Sword, Master Sword, Great Fairy Sword, etc.) But he also has a massive arsenal of versatile long range and short range special weapons, including fused bomb, fire or ice arrows, light arrows on occassion, mystically enhanced boomerangs and the like. His natural ability combined with his experience should be sufficient to match Squall's skill and possibly over come it with his versatility and unpredictability.

Hmm, I feel I've done a disservice by not mentioning Squall takes advantage of Fire, Ice, and Lightning spells in both Final Fantasy 8 (via junctioning tutorial which is done in a canonical way) and Dissidia (where his moveset incorporates using them all. Fire and Ice for ranged, or setting Fireball traps. Lightning is used either to bring a fighter in-close or to push them away.)

Although, even with the spells, I do agree that Link has a versatility advantage. I would argue however, that Squall's reflexes are huge helps in this, atleast enough to keep him in the fight (unsure about scoring a kill on Link, I think Link would be more likely to land that than Squall).

TheACE

 

This is also true. She likely has a mobility advantage over Zelda's base form given her flight. I think this can be countered by Zelda's Shiek Transformation, which would give her enhanced speed and teleportation to combat flight speed. She can transform at will, and Zelda's Smash Bros enduced mastery of the goddesses techniques should help her at range. In addition Hyrule Warriors has added Baton weapons for Zelda to wield thay do give her some aerokinesis and electrokienesis, hough i dont think her mastery is equivalent to that of Rinoa's. Her holding the Triforce of Wisdom enhances her abilties further, especially her Wisdom, which makes her a superior ruler. Her limits aren't very clearly defined as she is a non-combat type and usually supports link with her magic, archery and political sensibilities.

Teleportation is definitely a help, but Squall's own extreme perceptiveness will likely help in that case, as he is capable of dodging and diverting dozens of projectiles that were cast after a time stop was induced (which also files into his reflexes). Dead Fantasy helps Rinoa in that everyone there are likely bullet timers, with Rinoa being treated as the strongest of the bunch there, essentially putting them all into timeout. Whether that's because of her AoE or not is up for debate, but even so, you can't go wrong with a tornado. And if we're to go far enough, we could easily suggest that she's capable of using ice magic, due to the inheritance of her powers from Sorceress Edea, who specialized in that ability as well as mind magic (this is likely where Rinoa's telekinesis comes from in Dead Fantasy. Edea brings with her the use of spells such as Blizzara and Blizzaga. As well as an Ice Spike). Hell, we could go even further and say that Rinoa also inherits Edea's ability to phase through walls and such.

It's also worth note that Rinoa is capable of granting herself buffs. As seen on the Lunar Base when she becomes the equivalent of a stumbling zombie that is either so fast or so powerful (depending on the English or Japanese version) that she literally tosses people across entire rooms with just her brute physical strength.

I would argue that in this case, Rinoa has a visible edge over Zelda, in much the same way that Link has an advantage over Squall. I don't see Squall taking out Link, and I don't see Zelda taking out Rinoa. So this comes down to Link vs Rinoa IMO.

TheACE

 

The big question is which pair would have the least casualties. I think Link may have a soft edge over Squall, but Rinoa likely maintains the same edge over Zelda, at a possibly higher level. If rhe Final Fantasy pair can seperate the First Couple of RPG gaming, then they have a much higher likelyhood of winning. If Zelda's strategy and Links tenacity, aided by full Triforce power, can keep the two of them within range of one another while they face their foes, then combined they should actually have the edge, given ingrained centuries of team work over several different dimensions and timelines. The versatility of team Triforce gives me reason to lean towards them, though the lack of concrete feats Zelda has leaves much up to speculation.

I can't argue with their companionship spanning hundreds of years across different dimensions, but I would like to bring up that the bond between Squall and Rinoa is an incredibly powerful one, one that even brought such a macho man like myself to tears (although the music definitely aided in that.) As Rinoa drifts out into deep space, oxygen running out, Sorceress Adel released. Squall cannot live with the fact that he'd be on an escape pod and she wouldn't be. And so forces his way out, against his bigger sister's wishes, and blindly goes out into space with a suit of his own. Catching up to her floating within two minutes and sharing his oxygen with her. It's not until he's out there that he realizes he had no escape plan after getting up to there. It's by a miracle that the spaceship Ragnarok showed up when it did.

As for the finale, I would argue that Rinoa has the equipment necessary to handle Link. Her powers arguably are more effective in what they do, whether it be freezing a lake of lava, casting a tornado, Utilizing junctioning to the point that she can set off remote spells via her own weapons like the Valkyrie Wheel, or just plain casting any of the two off to different sections of the battleground.

Also, it should be taken into account that the Ultimania (essentially the Final Fantasy equivalent of the Diazenshuu) states that those in Balamb Garden participate in wrestling tournaments yearly, which speaks well of Squall since he's seen as a peer without equal except in Seifer.

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While, you can't indeed go wrong with a tornado, I'd like to say that Zelda has a similar one in her Baton. And she also has skill with a Rapier. And also, Zelda has a sort of similar ice magic, or more like something crystillized in her Nayru's Love. She can also use Din's Fire and Farore's Wind, plus that her other magic abilities are pretty powerful as well. And as I said, Zelda is the reincarnation of Hylia, and Hylia was a very powerful goddes, it was she herself who drove away the ultimate evil and darkness - Demise (whom is now known as Ganondorf/Ganon), and yes, also with the hero's help. But Hylia herself plotted ahead and created Fi and choose to give up her divine form and be reborn as Zelda so that the supreme Power created by the old gods could one day be used, meaning the Triforce. What I mean by sayin this is that Zelda has some real wits, not only combat skills. If she can't take down her opponent by mere combat she can then use her wits and intelligence to find another way.
I don't see how Rinoa has a visible edge over Zelda. Because, as with all I've stated above and with what I am saying now, Zelda has the Triforce of Wisdom, which itself enhances her powers.

Goddess Ultimecia

Nov 9 2016, 08:39 PM

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While, you can't indeed go wrong with a tornado, I'd like to say that Zelda has a similar one in her Baton. And she also has skill with a Rapier. And also, Zelda has a sort of similar ice magic, or more like something crystillized in her Nayru's Love. She can also use Din's Fire and Farore's Wind, plus that her other magic abilities are pretty powerful as well. And as I said, Zelda is the reincarnation of Hylia, and Hylia was a very powerful goddes, it was she herself who drove away the ultimate evil and darkness - Demise (whom is now known as Ganondorf/Ganon), and yes, also with the hero's help. But Hylia herself plotted ahead and created Fi and choose to give up her divine form and be reborn as Zelda so that the supreme Power created by the old gods could one day be used, meaning the Triforce. What I mean by sayin this is that Zelda has some real wits, not only combat skills. If she can't take down her opponent by mere combat she can then use her wits and intelligence to find another way.
I don't see how Rinoa has a visible edge over Zelda. Because, as with all I've stated above and with what I am saying now, Zelda has the Triforce of Wisdom, which itself enhances her powers.

Admittedly, I'm lacking a visual here when it comes to Zelda. As well as scale, because Rinoa's scale is immense, and with Edea's power she could choose to attempt to mindbreak any of the two (as Edea is able to take over an entire town with literally just a raise of her finger). When it comes to the triforce of wisdom, sure it enhances her powers, but by how much is my question, I need some examples if that's not too much.

If we're to get into discussion with the divinities at play here, let it be known that The Great Hyne created the universe, scoured it and moved all monsters onto Earth's moon, and sealed them there, as well as created the event known as The Lunar Cry, which is capable of sinking continents (look to Centra for this). Also look no further than Ultimecia, who had acquired all pieces of Hyne's cast off skin, and with it, was capable of destroying all of existence from all points of time all at once. And the kicker? That was Hyne's weaker half, the skin. He still held a better amount of power. I would argue even a sliver of Hyne is superior to the reincarnation of the Goddess you speak of, atleast in terms of pure *BOOM* power.

In terms of intelligence... okay maybe she has an advantage in regards to that. But Rinoa is the daughter of a Galbadian general, and is implied to have some pull, should she want to use it. Her resistance faction in Timber is held back because of the two doofuses she has to work with, as well as a lack of funding (literally she had to convince Cid to assign a SeeD team to her for literal pennies on the dollar).

In regards to bonds, Squall and Rinoa's is strong enough to combat the effects of Time Compression, to allow them the ability to exist and navigate a place where time is out of wack, and to survive in the vacuum of space. It's still an incredibly powerful bond. Together, along with friendship and a small dose of fate, they were able to drive back Ultimecia and destroy her... atleast until she intentionally began a time loop by passing on her powers to Edea who would pass her powers onto Rinoa, who would pass her powers onto Adel who would pass her powers onto Ultimecia repeat ad infinitum.

Follow this link actually, and just apply Edea's magic powers to Rinoa's reportoire, since Ultimecia proves that you can use a Sorceress' magic abilities while in their body (although the abilities in question are locked to that specific Sorceress that has them, unless of course you inherit their power.)

http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561453/1/

With Rinoa's reportoire, which includes being able to freeze her opponents solid, freeze their spot in time, freeze massive swathes of land, utilize different projectiles, bring inanimate objects to life, Force Choke life drains, Making tornadoes, Telekinesis, Gunblade, Valkyrie Wheel, ability to set spells on a timer through her weapons, potential mind breaks, ability to phase through large enough pieces of solid matter, creating barriers to block projectiles as well as use her wings to do so as well on top of flight... It's kind of tough to beat.

ZeldAlice

 

To you, Rinoa and Squall may be tough to beat, but compared to Link and Zelda, in fact I could argue that even Mario and Peach and Daisy and Luigi, and then we also have Rosalina... Powers, skills and abilities is at a whole other level in the World of Nintendo. But to keep in topic, you lack vision of Zelda because to you Rinoa, Hyne, Ultimecia etc is the only strong thing.
Zelda's scale is immense too and even greater when she was actually Hylia. But even as a reincarnation of Hylia as the princess of Hyrule and holder of the Triforce of Wisdom, both Zelda's Power, magic and wisdom is both great and immense. And for example? Let's do some Hyrulean history.
The Triforce was created by the old gods of Hyrule, a sacred power to great in the wrong and weaker hands and minds. But Hylia gave up her divine body to give the hope to the people so that this power can be used, but it still can't be used by just anyone. Also, it has the power to grant any wish, wether it is a good or a bad wish. If a pure heart toches the triforce and makes the wish, Hyrule will become a land of paradise, if an evil and unbalanced heart touches the Triforce (and this is what happened in Ocarina of Time) the triforce will split into Three parts, Power, Wisdom and Courage. Those parts must be gathered again if the Triforce is to become whole again. But until then, the seeker must recover them from the possesors, only the triforce-part which the seeker Believes most in will he acquire. This is what Ganondorf did in Ocarina of Time. The triforce of Power fell into his hands, and with it, from being a Gerudo thief and King and a sorcerer of dark and evil magic, he became the King of Evil and turned Hyrule into a World of Darkness and Evil. But to gain full reign and control he had to obtain the other two Triforce parts. Do you see what I mean with this? If Ganondorf, from being a Gerudo thief and King and a sorcerer of dark and evil magic, could become the great King of Evil and turn Hyrule into a World of Darkness and Evil from acquiring the Triforce of Power, imagine what Link can become from the Triforce of Courage (being even already very courageous as he is) and Zelda (and even being already very wise) with the Triforce of Wisdom. Do you see where I am getting at here?

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What I wish to say here is what I have said in my other posts, as a reincarnation of Hylia, Hylia's actual blood flows in the veins of every reincarnation of Princess Zelda, granting her great and immense Powers.
Yes, Hylia may not have created the universe and Hyrule itself, but the Triforce of Wisdom, as well as all of the Three Triforce parts, comntains the essence of the universe's and Hyrule's creators, the Three goddesses.

ZeldAlice

 

When it comes to intelligence, Zelda is the Princess of Hyrule, former the Goddess Hylia. And not only is she known for her wisdom and intelligence, she is also known for all the sacrifices she made, both as Hylia and as Zelda.

ZeldAlice

 

Honestly, I saw a clip of Rinoa leaving Squall for her flirting with another man. I Believe it was an actual cutscene but I don't remember which of them. As I Believe Final Fantasy has pretty much cutscenes (not that that is a bad thing at all, it is actually a good thing). But still... So much for that "perfect" bond...
Linkäs and Zelda's bonds goes even through time, eons, legends, universes and all reincarnations. A never-ending bond. The game Skyward Sword makes you understand this truly.

ZeldAlice

 

I'm not going to repeat all I've already said both here and in my other posts above. But I do tell you this, and this is most known in Ocarina of Time, Zelda is the Sage of Time itself, which means, especially with the Ocarina of Time itself, she has the power and all over time itself. All and most of her other abilities, I have already told about.

Goddess Ultimecia

Nov 10 2016, 08:51 PM

ZeldAlice

 

To you, Rinoa and Squall may be tough to beat, but compared to Link and Zelda, in fact I could argue that even Mario and Peach and Daisy and Luigi, and then we also have Rosalina... Powers, skills and abilities is at a whole other level in the World of Nintendo. But to keep in topic, you lack vision of Zelda because to you Rinoa, Hyne, Ultimecia etc is the only strong thing.
Zelda's scale is immense too and even greater when she was actually Hylia. But even as a reincarnation of Hylia as the princess of Hyrule and holder of the Triforce of Wisdom, both Zelda's Power, magic and wisdom is both great and immense. And for example? Let's do some Hyrulean history.
The Triforce was created by the old gods of Hyrule, a sacred power to great in the wrong and weaker hands and minds. But Hylia gave up her divine body to give the hope to the people so that this power can be used, but it still can't be used by just anyone. Also, it has the power to grant any wish, wether it is a good or a bad wish. If a pure heart toches the triforce and makes the wish, Hyrule will become a land of paradise, if an evil and unbalanced heart touches the Triforce (and this is what happened in Ocarina of Time) the triforce will split into Three parts, Power, Wisdom and Courage. Those parts must be gathered again if the Triforce is to become whole again. But until then, the seeker must recover them from the possesors, only the triforce-part which the seeker Believes most in will he acquire. This is what Ganondorf did in Ocarina of Time. The triforce of Power fell into his hands, and with it, from being a Gerudo thief and King and a sorcerer of dark and evil magic, he became the King of Evil and turned Hyrule into a World of Darkness and Evil. But to gain full reign and control he had to obtain the other two Triforce parts. Do you see what I mean with this? If Ganondorf, from being a Gerudo thief and King and a sorcerer of dark and evil magic, could become the great King of Evil and turn Hyrule into a World of Darkness and Evil from acquiring the Triforce of Power, imagine what Link can become from the Triforce of Courage (being even already very courageous as he is) and Zelda (and even being already very wise) with the Triforce of Wisdom. Do you see where I am getting at here?

I will get to watching the video, but do note that without anything concrete in the form of boosts, I have nothing to judge Zelda and Link's level. All I have is the game, which doesn't paint them as super duper powerful. And I only asked for examples of what kind of stuff Zelda has done with her abilities, instead I was met with a long and convoluted answer which basically amounted to I'm ignorant (even though I asked you for examples rather than saying outright that it's a done deal.) I've yet to see anything that puts Zelda and Link on Rinoa's level. Just you saying that they could potentially be very powerful

Every single deity that you mentioned there still does not compare in the slightest to Hyne's weaker half. Literally nothing you mentioned there compares to destroying all points of existence across all points of time all at once after having made it all a singularity by magical might.

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What I wish to say here is what I have said in my other posts, as a reincarnation of Hylia, Hylia's actual blood flows in the veins of every reincarnation of Princess Zelda, granting her great and immense Powers.
Yes, Hylia may not have created the universe and Hyrule itself, but the Triforce of Wisdom, as well as all of the Three Triforce parts, comntains the essence of the universe's and Hyrule's creators, the Three goddesses.

Refer to above, and before that. We do not see directly what these pieces do for Link and Zelda, they seem street level in the games. Unless there's another form of media that has them popping mountains or something of the sort, I have nothing else to go on except potential boosts, which ultimately fail when we have another fighter that does have feats that can be shown. And the games usually have Link having to use legendary items and the like to even compete with people like Ganon and Ganondorf, rather than becoming fast or powerful enough on his own to compete with someone that turns a world into darkness.

ZeldAlice

 

When it comes to intelligence, Zelda is the Princess of Hyrule, former the Goddess Hylia. And not only is she known for her wisdom and intelligence, she is also known for all the sacrifices she made, both as Hylia and as Zelda.

I was just making an argument that Rinoa is not as stupid as some are making her out to be. I wasn't arguing that she was more intelligent than Zelda.

ZeldAlice

 

Honestly, I saw a clip of Rinoa leaving Squall for her flirting with another man. I Believe it was an actual cutscene but I don't remember which of them. As I Believe Final Fantasy has pretty much cutscenes (not that that is a bad thing at all, it is actually a good thing). But still... So much for that "perfect" bond...
Linkäs and Zelda's bonds goes even through time, eons, legends, universes and all reincarnations. A never-ending bond. The game Skyward Sword makes you understand this truly.

This is later explained by Rinoa herself when you meet her on The Forest Owls' train. She had a former boyfriend at the time, name of Seifer, who introduced her to Headmaster Cid, who she later spoke to in regards to getting a SeeD team sent to her for practically nothing (mind SeeD usually take contracts that are paid for by entire countries). She's a teenager, of course Squall isn't going to be in her head all the time from birth. They were on different continents. Once they actually developed feelings for one another, they literally caused magic to happen (allowing them to travel through Time Compression and exist in Ultimecia's time, where no one could possibly survive except Ultimecia herself). It's not like their bond isn't anything special, these two would literally die for one another, Squall carried her on his back while walking the distance from one continent seperated by an ocean to another. Meanwhile blabbering about how much he would've changed if he knew what would've happened. Not to mention later on he literally goes off the deep end into space just to make sure she didn't die by herself in the void.

And besides, I never argued their bond was perfect, I argued their bond was incredibly powerful.

ZeldAlice

 

I'm not going to repeat all I've already said both here and in my other posts above. But I do tell you this, and this is most known in Ocarina of Time, Zelda is the Sage of Time itself, which means, especially with the Ocarina of Time itself, she has the power and all over time itself. All and most of her other abilities, I have already told about.

Oh? That's great actually, seeing as how the Sorceress Power transcends time and space itself (as you fight Sorceresses who exist beyond space/time). A Sorceress Knight (which Squall is to Rinoa) protects her mind and spirit (as of Edea's own statement).