"Agender/Non-binary/Genderqueer:" Are They Necessary?

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"Agender/Non-binary/Genderqueer:" Are They Necessary?
Tweet Topic Started: Oct 27 2016, 02:04 PM (1,656 Views)
Dingo	Oct 28 2016, 02:03 AM Post #16
Posts: 557 Group: Orangutan Member #9,745 Joined: July 13, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country None Favourite Anime Dragonball What Browser do you use? Chrome	Copy_Ninja Oct 28 2016, 01:56 AM Lazuli Oct 27 2016, 05:32 PM You might not run in to it yourself, but people do, and you see videos of people getting irate in public whenever their him or herness—usually herness, it seems—has been assumed. Buuberries posted a video a couple of days ago with someone taking issue at being politely referred to her 'her' right at the start of it; which is where I turned it off. Sure, that person was being an a*** and deserves to be called such for their behaviour. I agree with the point that, if you're using different pronouns that aren't common, then you should expect people to not know that before you tell them, it's common sense. As long as people are polite about asking for these pronouns to be used though, I don't see anything inherently wrong with it. I'd forget to use them because I'm not really one to cater to people. Edited by Dingo**, Oct 28 2016, 04:29 AM.
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+ Emmeth	Oct 28 2016, 09:26 AM Post #17
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	It doesn't matter NOW, but imagine in the future when important people such as head of states decide that they don't want to be referred to as male or female, then it will affect us. If humans evolve to accept anyone to want to be referred to as a non-gender (something they make up or simply choose not to), then it's not evolution; It's devolution.
	My Twitch Page


* Sousen Ichimonji	Oct 28 2016, 10:06 AM Post #18
You are calm and reposed, let your beauty unfold Posts: 4,176 Group: Retired Staff Member #3,986 Joined: February 15, 2009 Gender Not Specified Country None Favourite Anime Avatar What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga Ai Kora	Emmeth Oct 28 2016, 09:26 AM It doesn't matter NOW, but imagine in the future when important people such as head of states decide that they don't want to be referred to as male or female, then it will affect us. If humans evolve to accept anyone to want to be referred to as a non-gender (something they make up or simply choose not to), then it's not evolution; It's devolution. Oh jeez, warn folk if you're going to make a post with that steep and slippery a slope, I coulda hurt myself there! No person in any nation who identifies as agendered and asks to have other pronouns will ever climb to a position as a world leader until at least the majority of the population of at least one nation is totaly ok with it. Like how we're still struggling to find openly gay people at the very top end of government because of latent prejudices and such. The chain of events won't go 'small groups of people asking to be treated in a way that makes them feel more comfortable at very little cost to other people' -> 'suddenly, a president'. There's decades of educating, debating and destigmatising going on between now and your hypothetical then. Here's my stance: As someone currently 100% unaffected by this I think people should be able to do what they want if it isn't hurting people and is making them feel better. In fact that's my standard approach to things even if they do affect me and I don't like it. Tolerating stuff is a small task for us and a massive relief for others. Edited by Sousen Ichimonji, Oct 28 2016, 10:07 AM.
	Call me a safe bet, I'm betting I'm not I'm glad that you can forgive, only hoping as time goes, you can forget


~~Doggo Champion 2k17~~	Oct 28 2016, 01:20 PM Post #19
Posts: 7,931 Group: GTFO Member #6,380 Joined: June 20, 2011 Country United States Favourite Anime here comes What Browser do you use? o shit waddup! Favourite Manga dat boi	My main problem with it is that it falls under the wide umbrella of 21st century "safe space" thinking: cater to me, cater to my needs, and put me first. It's a selfish mentality that I don't want our generation to get trapped in, and I feel like it's becoming that way. Does it personally affect me? No, not really. Should I care about it right now? No, because I don't think it's causing any detrimental affects yet, but it's still something worth thinking about and discussing, much like anything else. All of these meaningless labels don't serve their intended purpose. People think that they need to find all of these labels to match themselves and make themselves fit in, but it only serves to cause more separation and confusion. It's gotten to the point where a person could hypothetically introduce themselves by listing their labels, and the person they just met would know everything about their sexual history and preferences. We don't need to know how sexually active you are, what your male/female ratio is, or how important you think your own existence is. We don't even need to know if you're gay or straight. It matters to you, but it doesn't matter to anyone else, no matter how hard you try to make other people care. Labels like this are just pointless. They only directly impact one person--you--and you aren't making the social change that you seem to think you're making. I agree with Emmeth's last point--it's a devolution of the human species, and it undermines a lot of legitimate arguments the LGBT community are making and the changes they are currently trying to implement.



*Copy_Ninja*	Oct 28 2016, 01:41 PM Post #20
*Novacane for the pain* Posts: 8,033 Group: Guardian Member #6,499 Joined: July 18, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None Favourite Anime Naruto, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, Hunter x Hunter (2011) What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Monster, One Piece, Naruto, Fullmetal Alchemist, Hunter X Hunter, Death Note, SnK	OFG Oct 28 2016, 01:20 PM Labels like this are just pointless. They only directly impact one person--you--and you aren't making the social change that you seem to think you're making. If someone is making a change that impacts them and makes them fell a bit more comfortable with themselves or whatever then I don't think it's pointless. Honestly, this only seems to be a problem because people are complaining about it. If someone talks to you and says "Oh, I'd prefer these pronouns" the response should just be "oh okay, I'll use those" and then everyone can then move on with their lives just fine. It's when people go "Well why should I call you that? I think that's stupid etc" where problems arise. I don't see why we can't just be nice to each other and respect everyone's peculiarities.
	We'll never be those kids again


~~Doggo Champion 2k17~~	Oct 28 2016, 01:55 PM Post #21
Posts: 7,931 Group: GTFO Member #6,380 Joined: June 20, 2011 Country United States Favourite Anime here comes What Browser do you use? o shit waddup! Favourite Manga dat boi	Agreed, but like Lazuli said, there are a lot of non-binary people who are very rude, egotistical, and condescending about it. It's a two-way street. Granted, I mostly see this online and in writing, but I have experienced it once in person, and it was pretty eye-opening. I'm a part of the LGBT community and encourage respecting everyone, but that doesn't mean that we should ignore the problems that arise within the community. I have several other issues with the movement outside of this one, like the bigotry that exists within the community itself. I like to talk about them because we don't ever hear anyone address things like this, unless it's some homophobe going off. Again, it doesn't really matter yet. Just something to think about.



+ Sandy Shore	Oct 28 2016, 05:02 PM Post #22
Posts: 1,860 Group: Elite Member Member #12,337 Joined: May 18, 2015	Not gendering someone that says they're non-gendered would be doing your bit to making them feel more comfortable; adopting their most favoured, made-up pronouns or particular ways of addressing them is satisfying their egotistical wants. There's no obligation to do such a thing. If some of you want to accommodate every whim and fancy of people, then more power to you, but I'd say that you then can't pick and choose which whim and fancy people have is more worthy of your accommodating, and that you shouldn't look down on others that won't deign themselves to do something they needn't do, to please someone they needn't please. Similarly to OFG, my direct experience of such people has all been online—because that's where pretty much every me-me-me resides—but I've never met someone pushing this desire that didn't act like others somehow owed it to them; that others should just somehow get it and get to it, even by those that refuse explain why - like it's such an obvious, basic right. Acting a victim, and putting others in the position of victimiser. We had an exemplar of this here just last month. I'm definitely not going to gratify this sort of person more than I would usually. If you want your personalised image more widely respected and recognised, then you'd better get working on that pop-stardom, baby. Post script:- I'm aware of how this post looks, but I don't feel particularly strongly about this. It's just that typing out my rejection of it makes it seem that way.



Dingo	Oct 30 2016, 07:39 PM Post #23
Posts: 557 Group: Orangutan Member #9,745 Joined: July 13, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country None Favourite Anime Dragonball What Browser do you use? Chrome	This video probably belongs here Spoiler: click to toggle
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+ Sandy Shore	Oct 31 2016, 01:09 PM Post #24
Posts: 1,860 Group: Elite Member Member #12,337 Joined: May 18, 2015	Those people are painfully pathetic. Trying to make out that it's nothing more than them picking out which pronouns look best on them, and that them trying to enforce that preference via abusive shouting-down, no-platforming, threats of a potential loss of livelihood, and now even potential fines should anyone—even unintentionally(!)—fail to do so or disagree, has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic of free speech. They can't be that thick, can they? Of course not. Oh, and that f**ing nut-job that genuinely thinks he's an abuser, guilty of hate speech for debating on the issue - I sincerely hope he stubs and breaks his little toe. My laughter was unfortunately stifled by the more-than-disagreeable reminder that this sort of lunacy is taken very, very seriously. To the point it's apparently now making genuinely scary progress in areas of Canada. I will say that, shockingly, the host was delightfully fair and sane. A rare treat, and it would have been unwatchable without him. This came up as a suggestion, if any of you fancy watching the* most insufferable prat trying ~~his absolute damnedest to play white knight~~ to get his teeth in to the topic of free speech. I think his plan might have been to cringe his opposition to death. Thankfully, Peter Hitchens responded with a good measure of good sense in another suggested video. Edited by Sandy Shore, Oct 31 2016, 01:11 PM.



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