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Goten,trunks and kami piccolo vs; Who takes this win
Topic Started: Sep 16 2016, 11:27 AM (1,470 Views)
Squall Strife
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Bomb or not, 16 is going to look like this @ the end....

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lol
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Gender Neutral, meaning I don't want to be specified to either gender. If you keep calling me by gender terms, I'm just going to call you an "it". That's all.
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Amerson26
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Squall Strife
Sep 16 2016, 06:52 PM
Bomb or not, 16 is going to look like this @ the end....

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lol
Yeah he's head gone be rolling on the ground saying we won guy's lol
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ryan1227
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The kids one shot the entire team. Even if 19/20 grab them, the kids have a gap on them that's far too big for the absorption to compensate for before the kids bash them into pieces.
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+ Pyrus
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Thiln
Sep 16 2016, 05:41 PM
Pyrus: Those rules stipulate that any unique ability which may potentially bypass normal power conventions of the DB universe are prohibited. If anyone heeded those rules then characters like Boss Rabbit, Spike, and arguably even Roshi would not be allowed since they each know a particular technique that works regardless of power level.
I think that's the point. These battles should be interesting. If a character can win by using a technique that's more often than not unique to them that bypasses power discrepancy, then there's no real discussion to be had because it'll simply default to that every time. Most characters do have a technique in their arsenal that falls under this prohibition, but I don't see why they still can't be used in battles barring that technique. 16's bomb is a cheap way to end a fight, even though it's a total last resort. It pretty much invalidates any fighting done beforehand when in the end, 16 will just cause a draw anyway. There's more to him than his bomb. But that's just my opinion.
Quote:
 
The power discrepancy was absolutely massive between Base Goku and 50% Freeza as well yet he continued to recover from heavy blows and resume fighting, even after having exhausted and damaged himself from using the Kaioken x20 he was still able to take hits.

Freeza wasn't trying to end the fight, though, was he? He figured Goku was a special event and wanted to enjoy his time. Maybe 50% was unnecessary, but I don't think that renders his motives invalid.
Quote:
 
These androids/cyborgs/bio-monsters might be self-serving and arrogant, but what they all have in common is a desire for self-preservation, if not for each other as well then for themselves. I think that would override any notions of dissension they may have with each other when faced with two opponents who are so powerful. The moment Goten and Trunks become Super Saiyan, that should give #16 and Cell enough reason to stop, pause, and realise that they have to use everything they can if there's any chance of winning here. Plus, there's multiple opponents here. Who is to say that Goten and Trunks would selectively single out #16 and Cell? They can't sense the former and Cell would likely resort to Taiyoken once he saw what was going on.

17 was faced with an opponent he knew was much stronger than him and wanted to absorb him, yet he disregarded 16's pleas of escaping and fought the guy. Even 18 was stupid enough to stay in the same general vicinity as Cell while Vegeta and Trunks distracted him. I wouldn't count on those two to make the smartest decisions when it comes to playing along with a survival plan, especially 17. If anything, I'd expect them to splinter off as their own duo and fight that way, much like their future counterparts did. It'd almost be three separate groups vying for survival in my eyes.
Amerson26
Sep 16 2016, 06:07 PM
Pyrus
Sep 16 2016, 05:57 PM
I disagree, but even if that was the case, 16 isn't going to use his bomb. It's a last resort, and by the time he realizes he needs it, it'll be too late. The power advantage is gigantic ally skewed in favor of the kids. I don't see a way around it unless the android team can work 100% effectively together, strategizing and coming up with plans to get the boys separated as well as off-guard. I just don't see that happening, not with Cell's self-serving nature, Gero's god complex, 17 and 18 working on their own rather than with a group of people, and 16 being largely a pacifist.
Yeah i see what your saying. But the boy's turning into a ssj will make 16 and cell do the last resort plan right away. Why because 16 can sense power levels then he will simply tell his team they have no chance. Then cell will proceed to used solar flare. And that's when they android team will go all out on the kids. The only thing that's gone suprize the androids is the kids can go ssj. I can see android 8,1415 drying even 18. But they will work perfect for the front line fighters while 16,19,20 and cell used they plan to take down the kids. And 13 and 17 go to work on piccolo. And that's how the androids can pull off the win. Goten and trunks could win as well if they was serious from the start if not then most likely lose.

The Gero team certainly has the intelligence to pull off the win, but if they can put that intelligence to good use before their numbers start to dwindle is where I'm looking at this from.
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Amerson26
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ryan1227
Sep 16 2016, 07:42 PM
The kids one shot the entire team. Even if 19/20 grab them, the kids have a gap on them that's far too big for the absorption to compensate for before the kids bash them into pieces.
Nah that wouldn't happen at all but that's your opinion. They one shot only if they take it serious from the start. If not they good as dead
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ryan1227
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Amerson26
Sep 16 2016, 07:54 PM
ryan1227
Sep 16 2016, 07:42 PM
The kids one shot the entire team. Even if 19/20 grab them, the kids have a gap on them that's far too big for the absorption to compensate for before the kids bash them into pieces.
Nah that wouldn't happen at all but that's your opinion. They one shot only if they take it serious from the start. If not they good as dead
So they couldn't escape from 19 and 20? Androids Saga SSj Vegeta was capable of ripping 19's arms off, so Goten and Trunks, who are both massively stronger than him, could do so as well.
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Amerson26
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Pyrus
Sep 16 2016, 07:47 PM
Thiln
Sep 16 2016, 05:41 PM
Pyrus: Those rules stipulate that any unique ability which may potentially bypass normal power conventions of the DB universe are prohibited. If anyone heeded those rules then characters like Boss Rabbit, Spike, and arguably even Roshi would not be allowed since they each know a particular technique that works regardless of power level.
I think that's the point. These battles should be interesting. If a character can win by using a technique that's more often than not unique to them that bypasses power discrepancy, then there's no real discussion to be had because it'll simply default to that every time. Most characters do have a technique in their arsenal that falls under this prohibition, but I don't see why they still can't be used in battles barring that technique. 16's bomb is a cheap way to end a fight, even though it's a total last resort. It pretty much invalidates any fighting done beforehand when in the end, 16 will just cause a draw anyway. There's more to him than his bomb. But that's just my opinion.
Quote:
 
The power discrepancy was absolutely massive between Base Goku and 50% Freeza as well yet he continued to recover from heavy blows and resume fighting, even after having exhausted and damaged himself from using the Kaioken x20 he was still able to take hits.

Freeza wasn't trying to end the fight, though, was he? He figured Goku was a special event and wanted to enjoy his time. Maybe 50% was unnecessary, but I don't think that renders his motives invalid.
Quote:
 
These androids/cyborgs/bio-monsters might be self-serving and arrogant, but what they all have in common is a desire for self-preservation, if not for each other as well then for themselves. I think that would override any notions of dissension they may have with each other when faced with two opponents who are so powerful. The moment Goten and Trunks become Super Saiyan, that should give #16 and Cell enough reason to stop, pause, and realise that they have to use everything they can if there's any chance of winning here. Plus, there's multiple opponents here. Who is to say that Goten and Trunks would selectively single out #16 and Cell? They can't sense the former and Cell would likely resort to Taiyoken once he saw what was going on.

17 was faced with an opponent he knew was much stronger than him and wanted to absorb him, yet he disregarded 16's pleas of escaping and fought the guy. Even 18 was stupid enough to stay in the same general vicinity as Cell while Vegeta and Trunks distracted him. I wouldn't count on those two to make the smartest decisions when it comes to playing along with a survival plan, especially 17. If anything, I'd expect them to splinter off as their own duo and fight that way, much like their future counterparts did. It'd almost be three separate groups vying for survival in my eyes.
Amerson26
Sep 16 2016, 06:07 PM
Pyrus
Sep 16 2016, 05:57 PM
I disagree, but even if that was the case, 16 isn't going to use his bomb. It's a last resort, and by the time he realizes he needs it, it'll be too late. The power advantage is gigantic ally skewed in favor of the kids. I don't see a way around it unless the android team can work 100% effectively together, strategizing and coming up with plans to get the boys separated as well as off-guard. I just don't see that happening, not with Cell's self-serving nature, Gero's god complex, 17 and 18 working on their own rather than with a group of people, and 16 being largely a pacifist.
Yeah i see what your saying. But the boy's turning into a ssj will make 16 and cell do the last resort plan right away. Why because 16 can sense power levels then he will simply tell his team they have no chance. Then cell will proceed to used solar flare. And that's when they android team will go all out on the kids. The only thing that's gone suprize the androids is the kids can go ssj. I can see android 8,1415 drying even 18. But they will work perfect for the front line fighters while 16,19,20 and cell used they plan to take down the kids. And 13 and 17 go to work on piccolo. And that's how the androids can pull off the win. Goten and trunks could win as well if they was serious from the start if not then most likely lose.

The Gero team certainly has the intelligence to pull off the win, but if they can put that intelligence to good use before their numbers start to dwindle is where I'm looking at this from.
Yeah 17 and 18 not to bright on team work when they face a stronger enemy. But they team work won't be much needed. Because 17 would be fighting piccolo. And 18 would charge in alone with 14,15,8. While cell,16,19 and 20 used that master plan. Them four would surely fall through plan. Most likely 14 and 15 will be first to die then that will make super 13. Once super 13 come alone him and 17 mostly will kill piccolo. And then the kids would go ssj. Then cell would used solar flare. Of course the kids won't know what it is because piccolo is dead so there's no one to tell them. And once they blind the andoirds must stick to they plan.
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Slifer
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Quote:
 
Because 17 would be fighting piccolo. And 18 would charge in alone with 14,15,8. While cell,16,19 and 20 used that master plan.


That's your idea. That doesn't mean the characters share it.

Quote:
 
Most likely 14 and 15 will be first to die then that will make super 13.


See? Now you're pulling stuff out of your a*** and adding a new character to the fight. If we're gonna play that game then the kids fuse. Let's see Solar Flare save Cell from SSJ3 Gotenks.
Edited by Slifer, Sep 16 2016, 08:09 PM.
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Amerson26
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ryan1227
Sep 16 2016, 07:58 PM
Amerson26
Sep 16 2016, 07:54 PM
ryan1227
Sep 16 2016, 07:42 PM
The kids one shot the entire team. Even if 19/20 grab them, the kids have a gap on them that's far too big for the absorption to compensate for before the kids bash them into pieces.
Nah that wouldn't happen at all but that's your opinion. They one shot only if they take it serious from the start. If not they good as dead
So they couldn't escape from 19 and 20? Androids Saga SSj Vegeta was capable of ripping 19's arms off, so Goten and Trunks, who are both massively stronger than him, could do so as well.
He was able to do that with the support of his feet. 19 will have gotten goten feets and 20 will have goten arms absorbing ki energy. Which ever part they grab on to drain energy the fighter don't move it at all. Like when 19 grab his arms why didn't he gets just used he arms to over power him? I'll tell you why because the Kai was get drained out his arm at a fast rate. So there for they was weaken. Unless gotten can shoot ki out his month he won't be going any were.
Edited by Amerson26, Sep 16 2016, 08:23 PM.
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Amerson26
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Mr. Hashbrowns
Sep 16 2016, 08:08 PM
Quote:
 
Because 17 would be fighting piccolo. And 18 would charge in alone with 14,15,8. While cell,16,19 and 20 used that master plan.


That's your idea. That doesn't mean the characters share it.

Quote:
 
Most likely 14 and 15 will be first to die then that will make super 13.


See? Now you're pulling stuff out of your a*** and adding a new character to the fight. If we're gonna play that game then the kids fuse. Let's see Solar Flare save Cell from SSJ3 Gotenks.
Wait am saying if they die 13 would used they parts just like in the movie. And I said they most likely would die because they are around the weakest. That had nothing with pulling nothing out my ***. And this is gotten vs the andoirds not gotenks. And super 13 don't have to be in the fight that still don't change the plan at all.

And how is that my ideal when am simply saying what will do to pull off the win? Why will they do this because they serous about taking out theses ssj that they know that's an threat. Goten and trunks knows little to nothing about them. That's better then saying someone speed bliz when it's not in they character at all unless they know what they dealing with. Vegeta may do something like that but not goten and trunks. I can see goten and trunks working together like the andoirds but they would be much playful with it. And by time they realize they need to get serous it would be a little to late for that. Team androids work together good plenty of times so it's possible. They all share the need to survive and win this battle.
Edited by Amerson26, Sep 16 2016, 08:21 PM.
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ryan1227
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So Trunks obliterates 19 and 20 instead. Simple. Also, the gap between 19/20 and Goten is way, way larger than the gap between 19/20 and Vegeta. They wouldn't be able to drain all of Goten's ki out in an instant, so Goten could probably just break free himself.
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Amerson26
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ryan1227
Sep 16 2016, 08:21 PM
So Trunks obliterates 19 and 20 instead. Simple. Also, the gap between 19/20 and Goten is way, way larger than the gap between 19/20 and Vegeta. They wouldn't be able to drain all of Goten's ki out in an instant, so Goten could probably just break free himself.
They have no reason to target them because they don't know what they capable of. Of Crouse they won't get all of energy. But both of them absorbing at the same time will for sure knock his power level down. By the time he break lose trunks will be out from getting ki absorb from cell. Why can't trunks break free from cell? Because when trunks is flash cell would grab him from behind and go for the nerve in his neck. Once he gain trunks power he has a fighting chance against goten. By ki gotten lost he will not be winning that fight.
Edited by Amerson26, Sep 16 2016, 08:28 PM.
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ryan1227
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Trunks obliterates 19 and 20 while they are trying to absorb ki from Goten, I mean.
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Slifer
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Amerson26
Sep 16 2016, 08:24 PM
ryan1227
Sep 16 2016, 08:21 PM
So Trunks obliterates 19 and 20 instead. Simple. Also, the gap between 19/20 and Goten is way, way larger than the gap between 19/20 and Vegeta. They wouldn't be able to drain all of Goten's ki out in an instant, so Goten could probably just break free himself.
They have no reason to target them because they don't know what they capable of.
Then they target the only person they can sense which is Cell, and then the rest of the androids have zero chance.
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Thiln
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Pyrus
Sep 16 2016, 07:47 PM
Thiln
Sep 16 2016, 05:41 PM
Pyrus: Those rules stipulate that any unique ability which may potentially bypass normal power conventions of the DB universe are prohibited. If anyone heeded those rules then characters like Boss Rabbit, Spike, and arguably even Roshi would not be allowed since they each know a particular technique that works regardless of power level.
I think that's the point. These battles should be interesting. If a character can win by using a technique that's more often than not unique to them that bypasses power discrepancy, then there's no real discussion to be had because it'll simply default to that every time. Most characters do have a technique in their arsenal that falls under this prohibition, but I don't see why they still can't be used in battles barring that technique. 16's bomb is a cheap way to end a fight, even though it's a total last resort. It pretty much invalidates any fighting done beforehand when in the end, 16 will just cause a draw anyway. There's more to him than his bomb. But that's just my opinion.
Quote:
 
The power discrepancy was absolutely massive between Base Goku and 50% Freeza as well yet he continued to recover from heavy blows and resume fighting, even after having exhausted and damaged himself from using the Kaioken x20 he was still able to take hits.

Freeza wasn't trying to end the fight, though, was he? He figured Goku was a special event and wanted to enjoy his time. Maybe 50% was unnecessary, but I don't think that renders his motives invalid.
Quote:
 
These androids/cyborgs/bio-monsters might be self-serving and arrogant, but what they all have in common is a desire for self-preservation, if not for each other as well then for themselves. I think that would override any notions of dissension they may have with each other when faced with two opponents who are so powerful. The moment Goten and Trunks become Super Saiyan, that should give #16 and Cell enough reason to stop, pause, and realise that they have to use everything they can if there's any chance of winning here. Plus, there's multiple opponents here. Who is to say that Goten and Trunks would selectively single out #16 and Cell? They can't sense the former and Cell would likely resort to Taiyoken once he saw what was going on.

17 was faced with an opponent he knew was much stronger than him and wanted to absorb him, yet he disregarded 16's pleas of escaping and fought the guy. Even 18 was stupid enough to stay in the same general vicinity as Cell while Vegeta and Trunks distracted him. I wouldn't count on those two to make the smartest decisions when it comes to playing along with a survival plan, especially 17. If anything, I'd expect them to splinter off as their own duo and fight that way, much like their future counterparts did. It'd almost be three separate groups vying for survival in my eyes.

But the technique is fundamentally a component of their characterisation. To strip them of that attribute is arguably the same as removing part of who and what they are. For #16 specifically, the bomb was an essential tool inserted into him for the expressed reason of being a last resort. There's other variables to the situation that makes even the usage of such a weapon unpredictable. For instance, the blast radius of the bomb as well as #16's proximity to the intended target. He's only able to harness it in this situation because he's circumstantially at a great advantage with regards to the amount of allies with effective techniques around him. By himself or without the likes of Cell and his Taiyoken, he would be easy pickings and using the bomb to successfully take out one of the kids would be highly improbable. Yes, he did admit that the blast would take everyone else around him out, but what's not being taken into account is the fact that outrunning explosions, even at point-blank range, was accomplished long ago by Base Goku on Namek. I'm sure the kids could do the same if they had awareness to (thankfully #16 has Cell and a bunch of distractions with him). So to say that it's a "cheap" ability doesn't really seem fair, in my opinion.

This fight would hinge on the temperament of the two kids. Are they completely serious or playfully willing to make some kind of sport of the whole situation? That's one important question we should be asking.

#17 is naturally arrogant and he can't sense Ki signatures. Still, I agree that they both lack common sense. They're just two potential pieces on the board. Both Cell and #16 would be enough to actually damage/weaken/kill the two Saiyans so long as the others act as distractions and the Taiyoken can be used.
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