Solid Snake

Sep 14 2016, 06:09 AM

As it stands, Super Saiyan Rosé Goku "Black" is strong enough to render Super Saiyan Blue Goku weakened to the point he would've died. While they may be slight equals in skills, "Black's" power advantage is evident. That said, assuming Vegeta "Black" is as strong as Goku "Black", they'd probably clear Beerus with team work. Whis and Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta stomps them both though.

Quote:

 

If it ever gets too much for the evil duo, they can potara fuse

Solid Snake

Sep 14 2016, 06:34 AM

Sorry...

Potara > Dance

Goku and Vegeta "Black" > Goku and Vegeta

Super Saiyan Rosé Vegito "Black" > Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta > Whis > Beerus

Vegito "Black" will stomp them.

Black

Sep 14 2016, 07:04 AM

Based on how Black works (mimicry as one of "techniques") and seeing how he can also possibly be immortal, too, I think he even has a good chance of get the work done solo. Before any of you say that my opinion is biased as hell, let me tell you something first.

My theory on Black is that he gets to an equal level/stronger than whoever he's facing. It may sound stupid at first, but if you think about it, it makes sense. I remember how people really believed that he is roughly on par with SS2 Goku (who, again, was believed by some to be at his Buu Saga SS2 level, duh) and that SS3 Goku would wipe the floor with him, or that SSB Goku would fingerflick him. I was amongst the rest of people, who believed Black was actually holding back by heck a lot amount. Goku had on him like what, two surprise hits, when time distortion hole was pulling him back? Yeah, whatever.

Then it was showed that Black grows stronger with pain. He could purposely lowered his PL and let Goku beat him to get power-up. He could have probably already been on SSB Goku & Vegeta level for all we know.

Now let's have a view on a Black's rematch against Vegeta & Goku in the future. Remember how Vegeta went straight to Blue at the beginning, claiming he will kill him? I don't think he was holding back, there wasn't any indication of it at all. But did this stop Black from appearing in front of Vegeta and placing his two fingers underneath his chin? Hell no. Based on that, he could already speedblitz him, and, by extention, Goku too. Remember how Hit's Time Skip worked? There too was 100% serious Vegeta, full power. I see this situation as no different, so Black's speed must be amazing to achieve feat at least comparable with 0.1 second Hit's Time Skip.

My chain of power for now:

Black Goku (SSR, hypothetical, mimicry power-up X3) >= Whis >> Black Goku (SSR, hypothetical, mimicry power-up X2) > SSB Gogeta >> Black Goku (SSR, hypothetical, mimicry power-up) >= Beerus >= Black Goku (SSR, Vegeta & Goku fight, full power) >= Goku SSB Kaioken x10 >> Black Goku (base) >= Goku SSB >= Vegeta SSB >> Future Trunks (SS2, post Vegeta training)

Add Black Vegeta, with the same abilities, into the squad 1 and this is beginning of a stomp. Let them fuse into Vegito and the world is pretty much doomed, f***ed, whatever.

Other scenario is that squad 2 stomps quickly via Whis abilities and speed. But I personally prefer to believe that Black is an actual, real threat, that wouldn't resolved by calling Beerus, Whis, Zeno or whoever there is.

And yes, just to point things out: I have Vegito > Gogeta of course (and by quite a wide margin, to be honest). That's why I have Black Vegito (whom I believe to be around equal in power to his "good" counterpart... before using mimicry, that is) stomping everyone even before mimicry power-ups, yet SSB Gogeta only slighty above Beerus.

Also, I know many of you'll say that I'm overestimating Black quite a bit, and while that maybe, in fact, holds much true, I still prefer to believe him to be OP rather than lowballing him to the levels of SS2 Goku. Think of it like Black being Buu's equivalent: he can't be destroyed until overpowered by several times bigger being in terms of power (possibly immortal body, similar, but not the same, to Buu's haxed regeneration), can replicate any technique used against him (Buu was doing that s*** all the time), gets stronger with every fight & by getting damage (this one is not like Buu's, more like Super 17's abilities to absorb attacks).

In the end, this is all just a theory, pure speculation on my part, which I'll defend until proved otherwise by the show, but hey, if anyone care to elaborate, maybe proving it completely wrong, then go ahead. But remember, this is it. Just. A theory.



///Just to clarify, without "bs" mimicry power-ups, my chain of power stands as it is:

Black Vegito SSR >>> Black Vegito >> Whis >> Beerus >= Black Goku SSR

And you can go from there yourself, because debating episode 57 power inconsistencies sure is boring as hell.

You can also place Gogeta SSB above Whis as well, because I'm not exactly sure how we should take Whis statement about Goku & Vegeta working "together" to "possibly" overcome Beerus. He could mean tag team, he could mean fusion as well. If the second is the case, then Gogeta SSB is still pretty much below him.

Solid Snake

Sep 14 2016, 03:25 PM

Black

Sep 14 2016, 07:04 AM

Based on how Black works (mimicry as one of "techniques") and seeing how he can also possibly be immortal, too, I think he even has a good chance of get the work done solo. Before any of you say that my opinion is biased as hell, let me tell you something first.

My theory on Black is that he gets to an equal level/stronger than whoever he's facing. It may sound stupid at first, but if you think about it, it makes sense. I remember how people really believed that he is roughly on par with SS2 Goku (who, again, was believed by some to be at his Buu Saga SS2 level, duh) and that SS3 Goku would wipe the floor with him, or that SSB Goku would fingerflick him. I was amongst the rest of people, who believed Black was actually holding back by heck a lot amount. Goku had on him like what, two surprise hits, when time distortion hole was pulling him back? Yeah, whatever.

Then it was showed that Black grows stronger with pain. He could purposely lowered his PL and let Goku beat him to get power-up. He could have probably already been on SSB Goku & Vegeta level for all we know.

Now let's have a view on a Black's rematch against Vegeta & Goku in the future. Remember how Vegeta went straight to Blue at the beginning, claiming he will kill him? I don't think he was holding back, there wasn't any indication of it at all. But did this stop Black from appearing in front of Vegeta and placing his two fingers underneath his chin? Hell no. Based on that, he could already speedblitz him, and, by extention, Goku too. Remember how Hit's Time Skip worked? There too was 100% serious Vegeta, full power. I see this situation as no different, so Black's speed must be amazing to achieve feat at least comparable with 0.1 second Hit's Time Skip.

My chain of power for now:

Black Goku (SSR, hypothetical, mimicry power-up X3) >= Whis >> Black Goku (SSR, hypothetical, mimicry power-up X2) > SSB Gogeta >> Black Goku (SSR, hypothetical, mimicry power-up) >= Beerus >= Black Goku (SSR, Vegeta & Goku fight, full power) >= Goku SSB Kaioken x10 >> Black Goku (base) >= Goku SSB >= Vegeta SSB >> Future Trunks (SS2, post Vegeta training)

Add Black Vegeta, with the same abilities, into the squad 1 and this is beginning of a stomp. Let them fuse into Vegito and the world is pretty much doomed, f***ed, whatever.

Other scenario is that squad 2 stomps quickly via Whis abilities and speed. But I personally prefer to believe that Black is an actual, real threat, that wouldn't resolved by calling Beerus, Whis, Zeno or whoever there is.

And yes, just to point things out: I have Vegito > Gogeta of course (and by quite a wide margin, to be honest). That's why I have Black Vegito (whom I believe to be around equal in power to his "good" counterpart... before using mimicry, that is) stomping everyone even before mimicry power-ups, yet SSB Gogeta only slighty above Beerus.

Also, I know many of you'll say that I'm overestimating Black quite a bit, and while that maybe, in fact, holds much true, I still prefer to believe him to be OP rather than lowballing him to the levels of SS2 Goku. Think of it like Black being Buu's equivalent: he can't be destroyed until overpowered by several times bigger being in terms of power (possibly immortal body, similar, but not the same, to Buu's haxed regeneration), can replicate any technique used against him (Buu was doing that s*** all the time), gets stronger with every fight & by getting damage (this one is not like Buu's, more like Super 17's abilities to absorb attacks).

In the end, this is all just a theory, pure speculation on my part, which I'll defend until proved otherwise by the show, but hey, if anyone care to elaborate, maybe proving it completely wrong, then go ahead. But remember, this is it. Just. A theory.



///Just to clarify, without "bs" mimicry power-ups, my chain of power stands as it is:

Black Vegito SSR >>> Black Vegito >> Whis >> Beerus >= Black Goku SSR

And you can go from there yourself, because debating episode 57 power inconsistencies sure is boring as hell.

You can also place Gogeta SSB above Whis as well, because I'm not exactly sure how we should take Whis statement about Goku & Vegeta working "together" to "possibly" overcome Beerus. He could mean tag team, he could mean fusion as well. If the second is the case, then Gogeta SSB is still pretty much below him.

I'm not disagreeing but I doubt Whis means for them to fuse to stand a chance. He was implying it like if they fight side by side against Frieza they could definitely beat him easier.