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ssj2 Kid Gohan vs Pre RoSaT ssj Gotenks
Topic Started: Sep 3 2016, 07:52 PM (1,446 Views)
Squall Strife
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Goddess Ultimecia
Sep 3 2016, 08:55 PM
Mr. Hashbrowns
Sep 3 2016, 08:52 PM
Quote:
 
He could just be remarking that they were incredible to him.


Who cares if he's incredible to Piccolo? The sole reason Gotenks exists is to beat Boo. Dwarfing Piccolo doesn't mean a damn thing.

Quote:
 
Speed is synonymous to power in the case of Ginyu Force. We don't even know if Majin Vegeta can go around the Earth several times in that time span. All that is known, is that Piccolo can't keep up.


Which is even more indicative of Gotenks' power if Piccolo is more concerned about speed.

Quote:
 
Gotenks can blow himself up when needed. Piccolo def had that in mind as he saw Majin Vegeta do that.


By your logic Gotenks is weaker than Vegeta, and Vegeta's suicide didn't kill Boo so that doesn't work, I'm afraid.
If anything, if Piccolo expects Gotenks to do the exact same kind of blast Vegeta did, and expects it to work. Then that means Gotenks needs a stronger platform from which to do that. Which is admitting Gotenks is stronger than Vegeta anyway. Unless you want to argue the kids have higher amp techniques than Vegeta and are thus better ki manipulators than he is. But they're just kids...
Gender Neutral.

Piccolo, because the ssj kids seperate are weaker than Piccolo. The kids couldn't beat 18 @ the tournament. So he's amazed that they have surppassed him so quickly.

Not really. He doubts Gotenk's speed.


It does in that Gotenks has more potential than Majin Vegeta. Vegeta was basically tapped out in this arc. Gotenks has showm he can increase his power if he trains.


Gotenks Suicide Attack>Majin Vegeta Suicide Attack

Because he more power potential than Majin Vegeta.



lol



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Goddess Ultimecia
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Squall Strife
Sep 3 2016, 09:31 PM
Goddess Ultimecia
Sep 3 2016, 08:55 PM
Mr. Hashbrowns
Sep 3 2016, 08:52 PM
Quote:
 
He could just be remarking that they were incredible to him.


Who cares if he's incredible to Piccolo? The sole reason Gotenks exists is to beat Boo. Dwarfing Piccolo doesn't mean a damn thing.

Quote:
 
Speed is synonymous to power in the case of Ginyu Force. We don't even know if Majin Vegeta can go around the Earth several times in that time span. All that is known, is that Piccolo can't keep up.


Which is even more indicative of Gotenks' power if Piccolo is more concerned about speed.

Quote:
 
Gotenks can blow himself up when needed. Piccolo def had that in mind as he saw Majin Vegeta do that.


By your logic Gotenks is weaker than Vegeta, and Vegeta's suicide didn't kill Boo so that doesn't work, I'm afraid.
If anything, if Piccolo expects Gotenks to do the exact same kind of blast Vegeta did, and expects it to work. Then that means Gotenks needs a stronger platform from which to do that. Which is admitting Gotenks is stronger than Vegeta anyway. Unless you want to argue the kids have higher amp techniques than Vegeta and are thus better ki manipulators than he is. But they're just kids...
Gender Neutral.

Piccolo, because the ssj kids seperate are weaker than Piccolo. The kids couldn't beat 18 @ the tournament. So he's amazed that they have surppassed him so quickly.

Not really. He doubts Gotenk's speed.


It does in that Gotenks has more potential than Majin Vegeta. Vegeta was basically tapped out in this arc. Gotenks has showm he can increase his power if he trains.


Gotenks Suicide Attack>Majin Vegeta Suicide Attack

Because he more power potential than Majin Vegeta.



lol



"You" doesn't connotate either male or female. It's You as who you are, in this case, Squall Strife.

Anyway, everyone else has already hit on everything else. You're expecting Piccolo to think that two kids who are afraid of dying, are suddenly going to be alright with going kamikaze. It makes no sense, and quite frankly, it's ridiculous.
Edited by Goddess Ultimecia, Sep 3 2016, 09:39 PM.
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It is ridiculous. It makes Piccolo look absolutely sadistic when his only "plan" or hope is that Gotenks will sacrifice himself to destroy Boo, when it's not guaranteed that would work. It's OOC for the kids and Gotenks to even humor such a foolish idea. It doesn't take into account anybody else's reactions to Gotenks' power. It doesn't make any sense no matter how you slice it.
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Squall Strife
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Ik. I was just put it for whoever did. Not you.


Nothing has been confirmed. Just alot of speculation, but nothing concrete.

Well, that was the kids. Gotenks is like Majin Vegeta. So idk what he would do, he probably run away if he couldn't beat Fat Buu. Perhaps,perhaps not.

Piccolo is going to put the safety of the planet before himself. That's been shown. He probs doesn't prefer for the kids to blow up. But if that's the only way to beat Fat Buu, he'll relucantly approve of an idea. lol
Edited by Squall Strife, Sep 3 2016, 10:11 PM.
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The fate of the universe was in Goku's and Vegeta's hands, and the only two ideas they considered were getting Gotenks and Gohan to fight or to use the Genki-Dama. Suicide attacks were out of the question.
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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

Squall Strife
Sep 3 2016, 10:09 PM
Ik. I was just put it for whoever did. Not you.


Nothing has been confirmed. Just alot of speculation, but nothing concrete.

Well, that was the kids. Gotenks is like Majin Vegeta. So idk what he would do, he probably run away if he couldn't beat Fat Buu. Perhaps,perhaps not.

Piccolo is going to put the safety of the planet before himself. That's been shown. He probs doesn't prefer for the kids to blow up. But if that's the only way to beat Fat Buu, he'll relucantly approve of an idea. lol
And he's going to force the kids to sacrifice themselves...how, exactly? It doesn't matter what Piccolo approves of; he could come up with any numbers of plans under the sun, but unless Gotenks is in on the plan and approves of it, it's going nowhere.

Plus, as Pyrus said before, what about everyone else's reactions? They couldn't all be hopeful that Gotenks could win and think that he'd blow himself up to achieve that, could they?
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On to the actual meat of this, every single statement regarding Super Saiyan Gotenks leans toward him being able to take care of Fat Boo at the very least. Forget about the Daizenshuu excerpt, which is vague enough on its own—it isn't the manga. Piccolo, Gotenks, and everyone else thought Gotenks would be enough to beat Boo. Not a single statement says otherwise. His lack of feats is absolutely meaningless in the face of a half dozen statements/implications. Feats themselves are unnecessary so long as there's someone to speak on a character's behalf.
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Squall Strife
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Well, that scenario is a what if. Don't know what would happen had ssj Gotenks fought ssj Gotenks. Statements are fine, but they are prone for multiple POV interpretations. It's fine if you think Pre RoSaT ssj Gotenks beats ssj3 Goku. I'll just go with the Daizenshuu says, an official source, and take the make the statements work regarding that piece of information.
That's all.

lol
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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

Squall Strife
Sep 3 2016, 11:35 PM
Well, that scenario is a what if. Don't know what would happen had ssj Gotenks fought ssj Gotenks. Statements are fine, but they are prone for multiple POV interpretations. It's fine if you think Pre RoSaT ssj Gotenks beats ssj3 Goku. I'll just go with the Daizenshuu says, an official source, and take the make the statements work regarding that piece of information.
That's all.

lol
Even an 'official' source is rendered invalid if there are multiple pieces of evidence contradicting it. SSJ3 Goku, maybe you can make an argument there, but there's absolutely nothing in the manga supporting the view of Majin Vegeta > SSJ Gotenks (Pre), and basically every single quote regarding that Gotenks contradicts that viewpoint.
Edited by Yu Narukami, Sep 3 2016, 11:47 PM.
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Slifer
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Quote:
 
Statements are fine, but they are prone for multiple POV interpretations.


And multiple POV's suggest SSJ Gotenks rivals Fat Boo at the very least while none say he's weaker, much less below someone like Vegeta.

Quote:
 
I'll just go with the Daizenshuu says, an official source,


You go with that and the rest of us will go with the manga, the official and original source.
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I don't know what multiple points of view there are for Goku and Piccolo being firm in their belief that Gotenks was everything he was cracked up to be. Nobody ever once said he was a letdown or a failure compared to his expectations.

Just my view on it, I guess.
Edited by Pyrus, Sep 3 2016, 11:53 PM.
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Goddess Ultimecia
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Diazenshuu's the only one that makes the claim that Fat Boo>Majin Vegeta>SSJ Gotenks (Pre)

Everything else, the source material itself, which has more say than the guidebook, say SSJ Gotenks is capable of putting down Fat Boo in every aspect of that word, not if he's going around playing Japanese fighter pilot.
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That Daizenshuu entry is vague, too. It doesn't specify a form for Gotenks, so is it his full power? Base? It can be nitpicked like every other guidebook entry if people choose to. I could easily make it work for me and say it was talking about base Gotenks, so:

Base Gotenks (post) > Majin Vegeta > Base Gotenks (pre)

Bam, doesn't contradict the manga.
Edited by Pyrus, Sep 3 2016, 11:58 PM.
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Sam
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It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.

Also, guys, kamikaze attacks are pretty much forbidden in versus topic rules. Like, Freeza could technically beat anybody by just blowing everything to s***. So keep that in mind. And respect each others' opinions. ;)

Sam
WoW Legion Ending - Thank you Darker for making this into one, big incredible gif! <3
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Squall Strife
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Even diregarding the suicide attack that's,which is def viable, everything else is pov, nothing concrete.

There is nothing shown that would contradict ssj Gotenks>Majin Vegeta. So the daiz entry doesn't contradict the manga. I just gave a non contradicting pov, I'm not saying entirely correct. There is still gaps of info that needs to be filled, so I just filled it in with my pov, just trying to find the daiz interpretation,which AT,the creator of db series, gave his blessing to.

The daiz entry still stands. It really doesn't even matter. Gotenks never really did anything that to warrant that much emphasis on tbh. lol

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