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DHS want to take over election process; People's liberties wilting away again
Topic Started: Sep 2 2016, 01:40 AM (1,104 Views)
Ding
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Nagito Komaeda
Sep 2 2016, 02:37 AM
Ding
Sep 2 2016, 02:35 AM
Nagito Komaeda
Sep 2 2016, 02:31 AM
Ding
Sep 2 2016, 02:28 AM
Nagito Komaeda
Sep 2 2016, 02:23 AM
Ding
Sep 2 2016, 02:20 AM
Nagito Komaeda
Sep 2 2016, 02:18 AM
Wait, so you mean that somebody can't be a critic of a person or in support of another without intending to rig an election? They have to be completely and utterly neutral? It's almost as if you think that people are incapable of leaving their thoughts and views at the door when it comes to heading stuff like this.

Also, as you stated in both the title and the OP, it's a possibility at this point, so stop touting it as a reality.
Plausible deniability is the name of the game. Games are being played behind closed doors and it's simply naive to take everything at face value.
So let's go ahead and assume that the DHS, if they do take control, are going to rig the election?

As far as I'm concerned, they're just referencing what the EIU said earlier this year, and what 50 GOP security officials said early last month.
Let's hope that people more concerned than yourself can do something about it.

The future of mankind rides in the balance.
Oh, I'm not that concerned about it because it's completely baseless.

You really think that people who head this kind of stuff are neutral? Of course not. Everyone has political leanings, it's just whether they're open about it or not.

Lemme ask you this; if the Government really was planning to rig the election, why would they keep the head of the department while doing so when they know he's been critical of Trump and supportive of Clinton? Do you really think they're that stupid?
Anything is fair game as long as they maintain plausible deniability and label any investigators as crazy conspiracy nuts. Changes head of the department during an election would only raise more eyebrows.
Really? Raise more eyebrows than having someone who's apparentlly Anti-Trump and Pro-Clinton being in charge of this massive 'take-over' of the electoral process?

Also, any investigator worth their salt would obviously have evidence before presenting their findings and conclusions, so calling them a 'conspiracy nut' would be completely pointless.
There won't be any evidence because they're not amateurs. The only way to prevent this is to have systems and controls in place to make rigging the election as difficult as possible (I.e. paper ballots)

Sufficient controls are simply not in place and therefore there is the opportunity for fraud. Fraud will take place in any environment which allows it to.

All the elements of the fraud triangle exist in this election.

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The only way to prevent fraud is to eliminate the opportunity.
Edited by Ding, Sep 2 2016, 02:48 AM.
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lazerbem
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The last time there was an armed rebellion in the US because people were annoyed that they didn't get the right candidate, it was called the American Civil War and the rebels proceeded to have their homes burnt to the ground and be beaten into submission within five years.

Unless you can get mass support for your cause, a rebellion like this is doomed to fail. Throwing a tantrum over a failing to elect a guy who has estranged various countries and people does not attract supporters, and rebels need supporters. Throw away the guns and focus efforts on Congress if it's that much of a bother.
Edited by lazerbem, Sep 2 2016, 02:57 AM.
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Ding
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lazerbem
Sep 2 2016, 02:57 AM
The last time there was an armed rebellion in the US because people were annoyed that they didn't get the right candidate, it was called the American Civil War and the rebels proceeded to have their homes burnt to the ground and be beaten into submission within five years.

Unless you can get mass support for your cause, a rebellion like this is doomed to fail. Throwing a tantrum over a failing to elect a guy who has estranged various countries and people does not attract supporters, and rebels need supporters. Throw away the guns and focus efforts on Congress if it's that much of a bother.
China or Russia will probably back the rebels. Let's hope to God it doesn't come to that. And you can bet your bottom dollar it'll be gorilla warfare this time around. Organization will be via social media and it won't be clear cut north vs south it'll be everywhere.
Edited by Ding, Sep 2 2016, 03:10 AM.
Dingo

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Helvius Pertinax Augustus
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What will you do when you get old?

No foreign country would back the rebels, many countries have huge financial interest in the U.S and a rebellion would destabilize the infrastructure of the country.
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Ding
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Jar-Jar Binks
Sep 2 2016, 03:11 AM
No foreign country would back the rebels, many countries have huge financial interest in the U.S and a rebellion would destabilize the infrastructure of the country.
Ya you're right. Would be terrible for the world economy.
Edited by Ding, Sep 2 2016, 03:14 AM.
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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

''Yeah, let's rebel and totally destroy any chance of our country being incredibly relevant ever again.''

If there was a rebellion, the USA would lose any kind of credibility it had. What's the end-game? They'd stand no chance against the Military and if they had the aid of a foreign country, they'd be indebted to that country afterwards and be forced to comply with them, lest they get into a conflict. Even if they were somehow successful, what would happen? They'd have a totally democratic system with no corruption? Well, no corruption until the candidate they hate wins an election, then the next rebellion starts.
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DanielSan
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Come on Ding. Alex Jones isn't a reliable source of information. The DHS isn't trying to turn the election in the favor of Clinton. Trump can do that by himself. Honestly the dude is imploding before our very eyes. He is struggling to get support outside his base and has one of the lowest rate of support outside his base. They don't have to rig the election at all. He is most likely going to lose for one.
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Ding
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Nagito Komaeda
Sep 2 2016, 03:13 AM
''Yeah, let's rebel and totally destroy any chance of our country being incredibly relevant ever again.''

If there was a rebellion, the USA would lose any kind of credibility it had. What's the end-game? They'd stand no chance against the Military and if they had the aid of a foreign country, they'd be indebted to that country afterwards and be forced to comply with them, lest they get into a conflict. Even if they were somehow successful, what would happen? They'd have a totally democratic system with no corruption? Well, no corruption until the candidate they hate wins an election, then the next rebellion starts.
I could see the military itself or branches of it joining the rebellion. The end game is restoring our election process and getting Hillary out of office.
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Helvius Pertinax Augustus
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What will you do when you get old?

There's so many factors that would contribute to the rebellion that to say who would win and who would lose would be pointless. The only way to find out would be to actually start a rebellion now.
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Tinny
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Nagito Komaeda
Sep 2 2016, 03:13 AM
''Yeah, let's rebel and totally destroy any chance of our country being incredibly relevant ever again.''

If there was a rebellion, the USA would lose any kind of credibility it had. What's the end-game? They'd stand no chance against the Military and if they had the aid of a foreign country, they'd be indebted to that country afterwards and be forced to comply with them, lest they get into a conflict. Even if they were somehow successful, what would happen? They'd have a totally democratic system with no corruption? Well, no corruption until the candidate they hate wins an election, then the next rebellion starts.
That's actually quite similar to how Rome fell on an initial glance to be honest. It doesn't fit once you look deeper but still, parallels are there. If America falls, it's gonna be because people rebelled over a Clinton or Trump being elected.
Edited by Tinny, Sep 2 2016, 03:18 AM.
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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

So what, parts of the military rebel and...? The military itself has access to weaponry and technology that would decimate any kind of rebel force, so even if it was split, it's totally irrelevant. This isn't the old days, where the military only had access to the same weapons as the populace.

Why is this even a discussion? Do you really think enough people are deluded enough to make this scenario even kind of likely? Even if the rebellion was as efficient and harmless as possible, they'd still damage their global reputation immensely and, again, what's to stop another rebellion once another candidate they oppose 'rigs' an election?
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Helvius Pertinax Augustus
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What will you do when you get old?

If you're talking about dropping nukes on your own country and citizens, you'd have to be a pretty f***ed up individual to follow that order. Other than nukes, hydrogen bombs, or any large explosive similar to them, U.S citizens can legally own any other type of weaponry the U.S military can. The main issue is the cost of the weapons. Even for the U.S military, they're restrictively expensive, but if you can afford one you can get one, outside of a few states like California, New York, Hawaii, Maryland, and a few New England states.
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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

I was referring to technology such as drones.

Do you really think cost would be the main concern of a Government quelling a rebellion?
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Tinny
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Jar-Jar Binks
Sep 2 2016, 03:26 AM
If you're talking about dropping nukes on your own country and citizens, you'd have to be a pretty f***ed up individual to follow that order. Other than nukes, hydrogen bombs, or any large explosive similar to them, U.S citizens can legally own any other type of weaponry the U.S military can. The main issue is the cost of the weapons. Even for the U.S military, they're restrictively expensive, but if you can afford one you can get one, outside of a few states like California, New York, Hawaii, Maryland, and a few New England states.
And this solves the fact that America's reputation goes down the toilet how? Or the fact that this sets up a new precedent of violent acts over the wrong President getting elected via "rigging it?"
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Ding
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Nagito Komaeda
Sep 2 2016, 03:21 AM
So what, parts of the military rebel and...? The military itself has access to weaponry and technology that would decimate any kind of rebel force, so even if it was split, it's totally irrelevant. This isn't the old days, where the military only had access to the same weapons as the populace.

Why is this even a discussion? Do you really think enough people are deluded enough to make this scenario even kind of likely? Even if the rebellion was as efficient and harmless as possible, they'd still damage their global reputation immensely and, again, what's to stop another rebellion once another candidate they oppose 'rigs' an election?
I don't want to take this thread too far off topic and it's impossible for me to go into the details of a rebellion because I'm simply not sophisticated enough in that area. There are too many variables as Jar Jar said above.

Rebellions however do happen and are even likely to happen when citizens feel their fundamental rights are being usurped. Just because it hasn't happened in our lifetime doesn't mean it's impossible. Would you think 911 was possible in the year 2000?

Anyway, this is the last I'll post about this as going into excessive detail kinda derails the thread and it would amount to nothing more than a wild hypothesis of what could happen.
Edited by Ding, Sep 2 2016, 03:37 AM.
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