How strong is goten and trunks?

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How strong is goten and trunks?; How strong is goten and trunks using piccolo levels
Tweet Topic Started: Aug 29 2016, 01:38 AM (3,905 Views)
Zoom	Aug 29 2016, 09:38 PM Post #61
Posts: 3,426 Group: Member Member #12,146 Joined: March 16, 2015 Gender Male	Mr. Hashbrowns Aug 29 2016, 02:17 PM I can't see him referring to just Saiyans because what happens if he gets put against 18 before any of them? He made a pact that he wouldn't transform, so if he's still confident in winning, that should factor all opponents, including her. Vegeta was okay with Trunks cheating against Goten, obviously we can fully trust Vegeta because he said let's not use Ssj no surprise considering his personality, right @ the person that said #18 can't tell the difference between base and Ssj. The boys are full aware of who #18 is comparing her power to their dads back then. While #18 is clueless on who Mighty Mask true identity really is (saiyans) and is judging by appearance (small arms and torso) and what feats (one punch knock out of a human). #18 finally realizes who the true identity of Mighty Mask is. After the boys transform into a Ssj, they are still at a disadvantage, resorting to a chi blast to win. Mate, only in Dragonball you can get away with this crap, while other mediums all have have feats trumps > everything else. I don't understand how Toriyama is so special, especially the fact in BoG and Super, Toriyama has given his opinion on the matter.



~~Squall Strife~~	Aug 29 2016, 09:42 PM Post #62
Posts: 1,188 Group: Suspended Member #13,373 Joined: July 12, 2016 Gender Male	Goku9001 Aug 29 2016, 09:08 PM Squall Strife Aug 29 2016, 09:03 PM So you admit that you are speculating beyond this point to suit your pov. "That's something I can't buy at all" confirms it. If speculating is analyzing the manga at its fullest to come to a specific conclusion, then yes, I am speculating. Than you must have missed the part where 18 moved on from that match ,unfazed,unhurt,unquestionable,unquestionable,unquestionable,unquestionable...lol
	Gender Neutral, meaning I don't want to be specified to either gender. If you keep calling me by gender terms, I'm just going to call you an "it". That's all.


Slifer	Aug 29 2016, 09:44 PM Post #63
Posts: 3,488 Group: Member Member #10,141 Joined: September 7, 2013	Quote: Vegeta was okay with Trunks cheating against Goten, obviously we can fully trust Vegeta because he said let's not use Ssj no surprise considering his personality, right You conveniently left out the fact Goten cheated first, so Trunks returning the favor was fair game. Quote: After the boys transform into a Ssj, they are still at a disadvantage, resorting to a chi blast to win. Which is still obviously an issue with the costume and not power, as immediately after that Goten reminds Trunks to hold back to prevent hurting her. If anything it further shows just how much that blanket was hindering them.



+ Yusuke	Aug 29 2016, 09:54 PM Post #64
Posts: 7,023 Group: Elite Member Member #9,876 Joined: August 11, 2013 Gender Male Country Canada	Base Kids are >=< to #18 but whatever advantage/disadvantage can't be too great. SSJ Kids demolish her and are superior to Piccolo regardless of where you think Piccolo stands in the CG/Buu arcs.
	Ask Yusuke


+ Sandy Shore	Aug 29 2016, 09:56 PM Post #65
Posts: 1,860 Group: Elite Member Member #12,337 Joined: May 18, 2015	Goku9001 Aug 29 2016, 08:35 PM This is rather clear that you're missing the point of the argument, and the fact that you keep presenting the same argument over and over again with the bold suggests that you need to rely on pure conjecture to support your argument. I don't think you know what conjecture means. You're claiming Toriyama purposely "drew the scene, using the Base Kids ability to fight someone who surpassed the level of a Super Saiyan years before to emphasize directly how strong they were", which you couldn't possibly know for sure whether that was the reason he drew it. Any attempt to drill in to us how ridiculously strong the kids are is accomplished without them needing to be be equal to #18 in base, and I say the premise of the fight, the reactions throughout and about the fight, and the fight itself—the only things we have to go on—don't suggest they are. Edited by Sandy Shore, Aug 29 2016, 10:00 PM.



Goku9001	Aug 29 2016, 10:15 PM Post #66
Posts: 65 Group: Member Member #13,479 Joined: August 29, 2016	Lazuli Aug 29 2016, 09:56 PM I don't think you know what conjecture means. You're claiming Toriyama purposely "drew the scene, using the Base Kids ability to fight someone who surpassed the level of a Super Saiyan years before to emphasize directly how strong they were", which you couldn't possibly know for sure whether that was the reason he drew it. Any attempt to drill in to us how ridiculously strong the kids are is accomplished without them needing to be be equal to #18 in base, and I say the premise of the fight, the reactions throughout and about the fight, and the fight itself—the only things we have to go on—don't suggest they are. It's not necessarily set in-stone, but that certainly doesn't imply that it's purely conjecture. Given Android 18's demeanor and her emphasis on their strength being unusually strong seems to suggest that there was some emphasis on the Kid's strength when he drew the scene, as there were with all of their other fight scenes up until this point. Is it an assumption? Admittedly yes, but there certainly is more basis for it than what you're implying, suggesting that Android 18 knew that Super Saiyan boosted their strength multi-folds when that's pure speculation. Every fight scene with the Kids were an attempt to emphasize their strength and if the only purpose was to show that as Super Saiyans, they were vastly superior to Android 18, then I'm not sure what Akira Toriyama was thinking considering we already knew this. Given the circumstances of the fight and Android 18's reactions during the fight stemming from her actual demeanor to flat-out acknowledgement of their strength leads me to believe that they were rivaling her in strength. The fight itself isn't really indicative that they were vastly inferior and the only thing you have to go by is the assumption that Android 18 was held back during the fight when Akira Toriyama only highlighted what held back the Masked Duo, not Android 18 herself.



* Ketchup Revenge	Aug 29 2016, 11:01 PM Post #67
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!" Posts: 6,083 Group: Retired Forum Moderator Member #9,012 Joined: February 9, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country Chile Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood, Dragon Ball, Samurai Champloo, Soul Eater, Assassination Classroom What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fullmetal Alchemist, Assassination Classroom, Deadman Wonderland	Mr. Hashbrowns Aug 29 2016, 02:58 AM She used an attack that literally would've cut the kids in half if they didn't line up the way they did. They held back power purely for the sake of not hurting 18 and it still completely freaked her out. I mean, there's probably better, less risky ways she could've handled that if she really was around their level of power. I don't know if it would've killed them. The Kienzan isn't a insta-kill technique. Krillin used it against Perfect Cell, and it did nothing. 18 was more concerned with forcing them to split up and expose "Might Mask" than she was killing them. She also has the advantage of not having ki. They'd just see the attack and freak out because they wouldn't know how strong it was. As for the current conversation, I always use the reasoning that since the kids felt they needed Super Saiyan to beat her (even if doing so would've been overkill), she was superior to them in base form. Their reasoning for going Super Saiyan was to throw a blast at her, not increase their speed or mobility. If Goten or Trunks were to go one-on-one with her with base form, I'm confident that she would've won. However, she'd have trouble with both of them coming at her at once.
	The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him.


Mihawk	Aug 29 2016, 11:15 PM Post #68
Posts: 4,804 Group: Prodigy Member #4,783 Joined: March 2, 2010 Gender Not Specified	Krillin using it on Cell was filler IIRC



+ Pyrus	Aug 29 2016, 11:17 PM Post #69
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Any instance of the Kenyan being stopped or tanked has been filler.
	Spoiler: click to toggle


~~Squall Strife~~	Aug 30 2016, 01:00 AM Post #70
Posts: 1,188 Group: Suspended Member #13,373 Joined: July 12, 2016 Gender Male	Krillin using the Kienzan on Perfect Cell is certainly viable even though it's filler. lol
	Gender Neutral, meaning I don't want to be specified to either gender. If you keep calling me by gender terms, I'm just going to call you an "it". That's all.


+ Pyrus	Aug 30 2016, 01:02 AM Post #71
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	So is Goku being afraid of needles. Jokes.
	Spoiler: click to toggle


+ Saiyan Paladin	Aug 30 2016, 01:12 AM Post #72
Posts: 1,920 Group: Elite Member Member #10,232 Joined: September 21, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Kai, Yu Yu Hakusho What Browser do you use? Firefox, Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Berserk	I've got SSj Goten and SSj Trunks around Cell Games SSj Vegeta, as for their base I do have them a bit inferior to No. 18. Quote: Krillin using the Kienzan on Perfect Cell is certainly viable even though it's filler. lol That same filler scene has SSj Grade 2 Trunks attacking Perfect Cell along with Krillin and Cell just stands there and doesn't budge, he doesn't even pay attention. Vegeta (who claimed Trunks was nearly as as strong as himself) comes down to fight Cell right after, as if that filler never happen. Its silly, so I can't put much weight behind Krillin's Kienzan being tanked there. Edited by Saiyan Paladin, Aug 30 2016, 01:12 AM.



breaker335	Aug 30 2016, 01:45 AM Post #73
Posts: 879 Group: Member Member #13,278 Joined: June 5, 2016 Gender Male Country United States	Let's not forget 18's infinite stamina. Hell her fight with Vegeta wasn't even that serious.



+ Six Trails	Aug 30 2016, 04:10 AM Post #74
Posts: 1,570 Group: Elite Member Member #11,764 Joined: October 23, 2014 Gender Not Specified Country United States	In base, I consider them both to be marginally stronger than Android #18. As Super Saiyans, I consider them both to be around SS Teen Gohan's level.



~~Squall Strife~~	Aug 30 2016, 05:23 AM Post #75
Posts: 1,188 Group: Suspended Member #13,373 Joined: July 12, 2016 Gender Male	Saiyan Paladin Aug 30 2016, 01:12 AM I've got SSj Goten and SSj Trunks around Cell Games SSj Vegeta, as for their base I do have them a bit inferior to No. 18. Quote: Krillin using the Kienzan on Perfect Cell is certainly viable even though it's filler. lol That same filler scene has SSj Grade 2 Trunks attacking Perfect Cell along with Krillin and Cell just stands there and doesn't budge, he doesn't even pay attention. Vegeta (who claimed Trunks was nearly as as strong as himself) comes down to fight Cell right after, as if that filler never happen. Its silly, so I can't put much weight behind Krillin's Kienzan being tanked there. Well, that's a different comparision & it shouldn't be used to determine Krillin's Kienzan attack. lol
	Gender Neutral, meaning I don't want to be specified to either gender. If you keep calling me by gender terms, I'm just going to call you an "it". That's all.


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