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- How strong is goten and trunks?
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| How strong is goten and trunks?; How strong is goten and trunks using piccolo levels | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 29 2016, 01:38 AM (3,908 Views) | |
| Amerson26 | Aug 29 2016, 03:38 AM Post #16 |
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And I agree that 18 was holding back because she didn't know who she was fighting. But then that make me wonder how strong was vegeta base form ? Because I think that's were the kids base form falls |
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| Slifer | Aug 29 2016, 03:41 AM Post #17 |
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Vegeta was confident in winning the tournament in Base, knowing 18 was also fighting and they'd likely cross paths at some point. Nothing remotely suggests that's wrong, so I see no reason to doubt him. The kids shouldn't be too far from adult Gohan considering his comments about being surpassed quickly if he isn't careful, along with Trunks landing a hit on Vegeta. |
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| * Yu Narukami | Aug 29 2016, 03:48 AM Post #18 |
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Izanagi!
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The suppression argument again? If she's capable of suppressing her power to the exact level where she's pretty much equal with Trunks, why didn't she increase it a little bit and knock him out of the ring? |
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Aug 29 2016, 03:48 AM Post #19 |
 
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Vegeta is cocky. That much is known. Probs trying to impress all the fighters who were listening. Gohan stopped training, the kids are training. Safe to assume that's what he meant. Vegeta was suppressed. This was confirmed in Super when he fought Future Trunks. Similar circumstances unless you think ssj Blue Vegeta was giving alot of effort into beating Future Trunks that is. Probs not. lol |
 Gender Neutral, meaning I don't want to be specified to either gender. If you keep calling me by gender terms, I'm just going to call you an "it". That's all. | |
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| Slifer | Aug 29 2016, 03:57 AM Post #20 |
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Vegeta is cocky, but what you're suggesting is that he's an idiot. He already did this with 18 once. He stormed in all big and bad as a SSJ and what happened? He got his a*** kicked by a girl. You think he's dumb enough to gloat about beating her in Base if he knows he can't?
If you consider friendly play-fighting as training then sure.
 Vegeta's facial expression doesn't suggest to me that he's taking the situation lightly. Edit: Not to mention after Trunks lands a hit, Vegeta counter-punches him square in the face out of reflex. Vegeta even looked concerned that he may have hurt Trunks....until Trunks raises up and smiles it off. 
Edited by Slifer, Aug 29 2016, 04:08 AM.
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| + Pyrus | Aug 29 2016, 04:09 AM Post #21 |
 
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>insert obligatory "Vegeta is cocky so I can dismiss anything he says without proving him wrong" shtick This topic, man. I don't know why it always brings the best cop-outs to the table. Base Goten/Trunks ~ Piccolo (post-3yrs) SSj Goten/Trunks ~ Piccolo (post-Kami fusion) Doesn't make sense.^ That's like a 2x boost. Edited by Pyrus, Aug 29 2016, 04:11 AM.
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Aug 29 2016, 04:33 AM Post #22 |
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Okay. Overconfident is the better word to describe Vegeta. He has ssj. Why would he be scared of 18. It's not like he was actually going to follow Gohan's rules. That would be an OoC thing for him to do. It sure surprised Gohan. So Ig it's a viable option to train. lol He's suppressed. When a fighter is suppressed, that usually means there aren't suing all of their power. Right. Vegeta has been shown to do this.....Supee being an example. Vegeta was upset that he's not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>ssj Kid Trunks. He acted out because he was upset, but realized that he might have made a mistake by punching Trunks that hard, but Trunks is okay. lol Edited by Squall Strife, Aug 29 2016, 04:35 AM.
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Gender Neutral, meaning I don't want to be specified to either gender. If you keep calling me by gender terms, I'm just going to call you an "it". That's all. | |
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| + Sandy Shore | Aug 29 2016, 04:45 AM Post #23 |
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That requires that she has even more control of her power than you'd probably believe, and an actual grasp of Mighty Mask's power - which she absolutely doesn't. She's capable of suppressing her power to an exact level where she can one-bang all the regular humans she's faced without killing them, so she can and does suppress herself. She sizes up Mighty Mask as being no ordinary human—so, like Krillin, Yamcha, and Tien?—but still very much doesn't want to be killing anyone. So she goes at Mighty Mask with some force, but to suggest she goes all out is insane. Imagine if she went all out against any of the super humans; she'd decapitate them in a single punch. So, I imagine that's the level she's trying to knock out—and not kill—but the kids are tougher than that, so they put up a bit of a fight, but she still manages to up her game enough to put them down and perhaps hope to keep them down with a generic blast. However, still not knowing how strong Mighty Mask was, it was evidently not enough. They go Super Saiyan, she says they could get out of hand or something, and that she needs to end the fight as quickly as possible. Then proceeds to do just that: exposing their identity so as to end the fight as quickly as possible. She hasn't killed or attempted to kill anyone the entire tournament, and everything suggests to me the kienzan is used for comedic purposes as a way to expose the kids, and not her attempting to kill the kids because she's so severely outclassed, and apparently desperate enough for the prize money so as to get disqualified and lose the prize money, and ruin any relationship with all of Krillin's friends, and therefore possibly even krillin himself. No, but he did claim with that statement he would win the entire tournament, when he shouldn't know how strong Piccolo is, but was most importantly dead wrong about being able to beat Goku - thus being essentially arrogant. The only relevant one he should be certain about is #18, who should be at a static power level, but when it was a general, sweeping statement, aimed at no one, that he was wrong about, I see no reason to consider it alone very weighty. The whole thing with Piccolo being weaker than base Saiyans seems fragile in its implications, and doesn't seem compatible with him being at least 30% of Cell Games Goku, and the Saiyan's gains being limited by Super Saiyan 2 Kid Gohan. Edited by Sandy Shore, Aug 29 2016, 04:49 AM.
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| Slifer | Aug 29 2016, 04:50 AM Post #24 |
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Quite the opposite, actually. If Vegeta says he's going to limit himself to X power, then lies and ends up using more power purely because he was going to lose, that would be very out of character for someone like him and would look terrible on his pride.
It surprised Gohan because Goten was already so close to him. Unless you think play-fighting would close as big a gap as you claim "quickly".
You keep comparing this to the Vegeta/Trunks fight in Super, but the two are completely different. With Kid Trunks, Vegeta tells Trunks to try and him. Period. Trunks start swinging and Vegeta is literally gritting his teeth and sweating from being on the defensive. And guess what? Trunks hits him. Only after that does Vegeta retaliate. With Future Trunks, Vegeta tell Trunks to try and hit him. Trunks does a move that briefly distracts Vegeta, takes a shot and misses. Then Vegeta goes purely on offense and Trunks is f***ed.
You say Vegeta was suppressed against Kid Trunks, but then turn around and say he got mad because he wasn't vastly superior, even though he only got hit because he was suppressed to the point where Trunks could do that. So which is it? |
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| * Yu Narukami | Aug 29 2016, 04:51 AM Post #25 |
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Izanagi!
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So Trunks can't handle someone coming at him using a level of power that's barely above a normal human's? If she has no grasp of Mighty Mask's power and, as you said, wouldn't use anything close to her power, how much power was she actually using? She can't assume he's as strong as the other Super Humans she knows, so what's she basing her current level of power on? |
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| + Sandy Shore | Aug 29 2016, 05:06 AM Post #26 |
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Trunks did handle it; he successfully got in to a scuffle with her, but then she puts him down. Probably adjusting her power level, like you wondered why she doesn't. Still not having a full grasp of Mighty Mask and his power—as she expresses after having put him down—it wasn't enough to win her the match. She's still not worried, though. She can't assume he's as strong as the other super humans she knows, but it's a far more reasonable placement than her assuming he's capable of taking her all despite not seeming at all concerned until they turn Super Saiyan—merely confused—and she simply sizes him up as no ordinary human, not as particuarly threatening. I think the other non-ordinary humans would be the best ballpark for her to start in without killing mans. Even if they're eighty-times more powerful than her, her going all out at the start because they man-handled some canon-fodder would be ridiculous. |
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| * Yu Narukami | Aug 29 2016, 05:11 AM Post #27 |
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Izanagi!
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Trunks should've been able to take her out with ease if she was coming at him while being that weak, even with his limited mobility. Trunks doesn't indicate that he's using different amount of powers in his Base throughout the fight, and he's well aware of who his opponent is and how strong she is, yet #18's totally unable to get a grasp of how powerful he is throughout that entire time? If she adjusted her power the first time, why did she continue to have trouble during the fight? |
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Aug 29 2016, 05:16 AM Post #28 |
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Okay. But you are forgetting that Piccolo & Goku are in this tournament which contradicts his statement or....he's just being overconfident,most likely arrogant, in this instance. lol We don't even know how they train. So how can that be used. Plus, you are putting the kids down in this instance when your argument should be placing the kids above 18.lol Yeah, because Vegeta is def. 100% or even remotely close to it. I keep comparing Super because Vegeta is suppressed regardless if he's fighting back or not against Trunks. That's the point. He's not trying to actually beat his son, otherwise he would have beaten him a long time ago. He's training him. He's just training Trunks. Trunks got the better of him when he was suppressed and he got upset & used some more effort than he thought Trunks could take. That's all. lol |
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Gender Neutral, meaning I don't want to be specified to either gender. If you keep calling me by gender terms, I'm just going to call you an "it". That's all. | |
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Aug 29 2016, 05:17 AM Post #29 |
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My bad on the double post. Accidentally pressed the quote button to edit the first message. lol Edited by Squall Strife, Aug 29 2016, 05:21 AM.
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Gender Neutral, meaning I don't want to be specified to either gender. If you keep calling me by gender terms, I'm just going to call you an "it". That's all. | |
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| + Sandy Shore | Aug 29 2016, 05:52 AM Post #30 |
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She makes it perfectly clear she can't get a good reading on Mighty Mask. She punches him; he blocks it. She starts kicking him; he blocks it, but moves back. He starts fighting back, but she delivers a kick that sees wince and retreat in to the air. She chases him down; he says it's hard to move, and then she gives him a good hit, but (probably due to not having a grasp of his power, as is obvious) isn't enough to put him down. She follows up with a generic ki blast. I don't see why she can't be upping her game through-out this short bout; I never suggested she's locked herself off at a power level Trunks should be able to top in a single hit; I'm simply talking about what sort of power she's starting at. Around Krillin's level and going up from there being far, far more reasonable for "no ordinary human" than the sort of power that breaks the arm of some master race, super being in a single kick. You might say nothing suggests she held back, but nothing suggests she has any reason to go all out against some guy she thinks is just a strong human - the strongest known of which she could erase in an instant. It makes more sense for her to have been holding back, where she's even expressionless the entire time, is still expressionless while noting what a "weird bastard" he really is, and only starts to look a little bothered when they turn Super Saiyan, but also gleefully relieved. Why relieved? It's very obviously because now she (thinks she) knows what she's dealing with, and can get on and win the match. If she's confident she can take them even after they've transformed, she couldn't have been at all bothered about them in base form - with everything appearing as if she wasn't. This confidence is misplaced, though. They're still stronger than she expected. You might also mention Mighty Mask being restricted, which is why I'd fully admit this fight is inconclusive on who is meant to be stronger, but I'd attribute that to the reason the Super Saiyans are stronger than she expected - having not displayed their full base power to her they can be surprisingly ahead of her after transforming, but still incapable of being a threat to her in base form. Which they weren't. It's just far, far more reasonable to think that #18 held back when dealing with someone who was just "no ordinary human", and whom she explicitly can't get a grasp of, but wouldn't want to kill, as she had consistently avoided killing the entire tournament. |
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