Was Super Sayian Grade 2 a useless form?

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Was Super Sayian Grade 2 a useless form?
Tweet Topic Started: Aug 27 2016, 10:36 PM (1,365 Views)
BioBroly288	Aug 27 2016, 10:36 PM Post #1
Saiyan Of Legend Posts: 602 Group: Member Member #9,511 Joined: May 18, 2013 Gender Male Favourite Anime DBZ What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga DBZ	It gave the user a good amount of strength while retaining its speed. Would it have been good if Vegeta or anyone else had mastered it, it didn't seem "primitive" as Vegeta liked to call it as Grade 3. EDIT: Super Saiyan* Grade 2, excuse me Edited by BioBroly288, Aug 27 2016, 10:40 PM.



TKSSJ	Aug 27 2016, 11:00 PM Post #2
Posts: 311 Group: Member Member #4,563 Joined: November 2, 2009 Favourite Anime DBZ What Browser do you use? Google Chrome	Grade 2 would've been the most useful transformation had Vegeta finished Imperfect Cell with it. It still would've been inferior because Goku and Gohan would still master SSJ as they would have no knowledge of cell's defeat.
	TKF


+ Son-Goku	Aug 27 2016, 11:07 PM Post #3
孫悟空 Posts: 13,359 Group: Elite Member Member #12,886 Joined: January 24, 2016 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime DB/DBZ/DBS, Code Geass, Gintama, YYH, Death Note, and SAO. What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fairy Tail, and Naruto.	There has to be some sort of flaw to the transformation otherwise I'm sure Goku would have tried to master it unlike normal Super Saiyan. In any case it becomes useless once everyone else has mastered Super Saiyan 2.
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Dankness Lava	Aug 28 2016, 02:33 AM Post #4
Dankness Forever Posts: 6,348 Group: Tha Dankness Member #9,197 Joined: March 16, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country None Favourite Anime Hajime no Ippo What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga One Piece	There's the possibility that Toriyama merely forgot.



EMIYA	Aug 28 2016, 02:40 AM Post #5
"I am the bone of my sword." Posts: 11,326 Group: Super Moderator Member #8,292 Joined: September 16, 2012 Gender Not Specified Country United States Favourite Anime Clannad, Shinsekai Yori What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Hellsing, Elfen Lied, Trigun Maximum	Frankly, Super Saiyan Grade 2/ASSJ should be superior to MSSJ unless of course one believes that MSSJ gives the same or higher boost than ASSJ. You have essentially a stronger, faster, more durable form able to excess more ki. It's only downsize is that it doesn't balance out stamina the way MSSj does. Which may be a problem if that whole stamina was ever an issue but in the end, ASSJ feels the same as Super Saiyan in that regard. Problems that only seem to happen in the long run, if it does happen. Perhaps MSSJ is more helpful in the long run when combined with training and keeping the strain off so its easier to make more gains. But once an actual fight starts, I'd want the strongest, fastest, more durable form I could make putting my ki at its peak.



FutureSaiyan	Aug 28 2016, 02:41 AM Post #6
Posts: 924 Group: Member Member #11,997 Joined: January 18, 2015 Gender Male Country Australia Favourite Anime Dragonball Z, Naruto, Bleach, AoT, Death Note, FMAB Favourite Manga DBZ	Son Goten Aug 27 2016, 11:07 PM There has to be some sort of flaw to the transformation otherwise I'm sure Goku would have tried to master it unlike normal Super Saiyan. In any case it becomes useless once everyone else has mastered Super Saiyan 2. The flaw was that its power was limited. You could only power up so much before you start losing speed.



FutureSaiyan	Aug 28 2016, 02:43 AM Post #7
Posts: 924 Group: Member Member #11,997 Joined: January 18, 2015 Gender Male Country Australia Favourite Anime Dragonball Z, Naruto, Bleach, AoT, Death Note, FMAB Favourite Manga DBZ	EMIYA Aug 28 2016, 02:40 AM Frankly, Super Saiyan Grade 2/ASSJ should be superior to MSSJ unless of course one believes that MSSJ gives the same or higher boost than ASSJ. You have essentially a stronger, faster, more durable form able to excess more ki. It's only downsize is that it doesn't balance out stamina the way MSSj does. Which may be a problem if that whole stamina was ever an issue but in the end, ASSJ feels the same as Super Saiyan in that regard. Problems that only seem to happen in the long run, if it does happen. Perhaps MSSJ is more helpful in the long run when combined with training and keeping the strain off so its easier to make more gains. But once an actual fight starts, I'd want the strongest, fastest, more durable form I could make putting my ki at its peak. The idea was by mastering super saiyan that they could power up super saiyan beyond the limits of the grade form while retaining all their speed.



* Yu Narukami	Aug 28 2016, 03:38 AM Post #8
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	The problem was the stamina drain, just like SSJ. Goku was playing the long game against Cell; he needed to show Gohan how Cell fought, and the longer the fight was, the more Cell would show. He was banking on Gohan's hidden power beating Cell from the start, so showing Gohan Cell's fighting style would be much more important than showing him that Cell > SSJG2 Goku.



DanielSan	Aug 28 2016, 07:46 PM Post #9
Posts: 1,536 Group: Donator Member #5,730 Joined: February 14, 2011	SSJ2 pretty much made SSJ Grade 2 useless. Like someone said Goku needed to fight Cell for a long period of time and MSSJ helped. Also even if ASSJ helped, Cell can basically boost his power the same way making it useless. SSJ2 was needed to finish Cell and once SSJ2 is achieved then ASSJ is useless.



~~Squall Strife~~	Aug 28 2016, 07:58 PM Post #10
Posts: 1,188 Group: Suspended Member #13,373 Joined: July 12, 2016 Gender Male	Just add sparks, increase the speed & strength by a multiple times & you have ssj2. Vegeta had the right idea to keeping pushing past ssj rather than just train it. lol
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* Ketchup Revenge	Aug 28 2016, 08:09 PM Post #11
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!" Posts: 6,083 Group: Retired Forum Moderator Member #9,012 Joined: February 9, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country Chile Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood, Dragon Ball, Samurai Champloo, Soul Eater, Assassination Classroom What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fullmetal Alchemist, Assassination Classroom, Deadman Wonderland	Grade 2 wasn't as useless as Grade 3, it's just that more efficient forms were discovered. Efficiency and control always trumps power increase. This is why we can pull back multipliers for Super Saiyan to 10x, and it would still be superior to Kaioken x20. Same with Super Saiyan Blue being used over Super Saiyan 3; which is why Vegeta will never be seen using Super Saiyan 3, although I'm confident that in DBS, he could transform into it if he actually wanted to. Vegeta's not stupid, and we've seen him refrain from using transformations before if he thought that they were useless. The same concept can be applied to Vegeta never using Grade 3; although he was suggested to know how to use it. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Aug 28 2016, 08:14 PM.
	The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him.


Political Piper	Aug 28 2016, 10:00 PM Post #12
Posts: 449 Group: Member Member #13,465 Joined: August 23, 2016 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragonball Z What Browser do you use? Chrome	Okay. I'm not up-to-date on my grades here. So Grade 2 is where they ascend to the next level, like Vegeta vs semi-perfect Cell? Grade 3 is where they ascend to another level and become even bulkier, like Trunks vs Perfect? Then ssj2 is where they pass grade 2 and grade 3 and ascend to a higher level but keep their stature so they can increase their speed as well?
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FutureSaiyan	Aug 28 2016, 11:38 PM Post #13
Posts: 924 Group: Member Member #11,997 Joined: January 18, 2015 Gender Male Country Australia Favourite Anime Dragonball Z, Naruto, Bleach, AoT, Death Note, FMAB Favourite Manga DBZ	Political Piper Aug 28 2016, 10:00 PM Okay. I'm not up-to-date on my grades here. So Grade 2 is where they ascend to the next level, like Vegeta vs semi-perfect Cell? Grade 3 is where they ascend to another level and become even bulkier, like Trunks vs Perfect? Then ssj2 is where they pass grade 2 and grade 3 and ascend to a higher level but keep their stature so they can increase their speed as well? Correct, although i wouldnt say ss2 is the next level of grade two and three. It's more a different avenue of powering up. So imagine ss1 has a left path which are the grade forms, then a right path which goes onto ss2.



* Ketchup Revenge	Aug 29 2016, 12:00 AM Post #14
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!" Posts: 6,083 Group: Retired Forum Moderator Member #9,012 Joined: February 9, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country Chile Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood, Dragon Ball, Samurai Champloo, Soul Eater, Assassination Classroom What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fullmetal Alchemist, Assassination Classroom, Deadman Wonderland	Political Piper Aug 28 2016, 10:00 PM Okay. I'm not up-to-date on my grades here. So Grade 2 is where they ascend to the next level, like Vegeta vs semi-perfect Cell? Grade 3 is where they ascend to another level and become even bulkier, like Trunks vs Perfect? Then ssj2 is where they pass grade 2 and grade 3 and ascend to a higher level but keep their stature so they can increase their speed as well? Essentially, Grades are believed to be inefficient because the Saiyans force their bodies to transform before they're able to control Super Saiyan properly. The grades are the forms that Vegeta and Trunks use against Cell after they exit the Room of Spirit and Time. When Full Power Super Saiyan is reached (the form that Goku and Gohan use against Cell), that's when a Saiyan is able to transform properly and reach Super Saiyan 2. Full power Super Saiyan also goes by the name "Mastered Super Saiyan". The form is trained to the point where the strain of sustaining Super Saiyan is minimized, and the Saiyan doesn't exhibit the ecstatic aggression that comes with the standard form. By minimizing the strain, the Saiyan can then achieve forms that are much more efficient.
	The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him.


Goku9001	Aug 29 2016, 07:11 AM Post #15
Posts: 65 Group: Member Member #13,479 Joined: August 29, 2016	My theory is that SSJG2 was originally used to break through a plateau that Super Saiyans originally couldn't by tapping into more of their dormant power as a Super Saiyan through unnatural transformations whereas MSSJ training enabled Super Saiyans to tap into all of that dormant power while remaining as Regular Super Saiyans. MSSJ was clearly better as being able to draw all of that power as a Regular Super Saiyan has proved not only to be more energy efficient, but also didn't come with any repercussions and provided significantly more power overall compared to being reliant on the "Graded Forms" like Vegeta was. This doesn't mean MSSJ provides a higher multiplier because manga implies that it's much like the Original Super Saiyan state. The only difference is that MSSJs access as much dormant power as possible which mitigates any need for the Graded forms as it accomplishes the same goal much more efficiently and in order to tap into more dormant power, they'd either need to enhance their Super Saiyan State or obtain the true ascensions to the Super Saiyan state.



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