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How do Christians respond to this?
Topic Started: Aug 27 2016, 01:04 AM (6,449 Views)
Dankness Lava Sep 23 2016, 05:08 PM Post #106
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Dankness Forever
Lazuli
Sep 23 2016, 01:40 PM
Is it something you are, or something you do!?

Really, though, I thought you were trying to get yourself a realistic perspective on things. I question why you ever said wrote "God" in the shoutbox, when you're clearly as clingy as you've ever been.

Things like you wanting there to be some almighty judge at the end of the rainbow for rapists that go on to have a great life doesn't make it so. If such an all-powerful being were truly benevolent, it wouldn't have allowed someone to get raped in the first place. Sure, you're all saying humans themselves do bad things, and in a world without God we accept that humans themselves are pretty awful, but in a fantasy-world with God, it's he who has willfully set in motion all events that allow it to happen.

He would be the willful source of suffering however you try to slice it, and if you want to believe in this God, you're just going to have to accept that.
Evil is nothing more than the lack of good. It was man's choice to bring evil into the world. Sure, God created evil. But evil can only exist where good does. Are you saying God should've made us mindless worshipers? He has his angels for that.

No, it doesn't make the creator exist just because I want a judge. But who are you to say there is no creator? You might say, well who am I to say there is one, and to that i would say, an advocate for good and love.

If you say there is no judge, I hope you're doing your best to make sure good happens on this planet.
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Dankness Lava Sep 23 2016, 11:14 PM Post #107
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Nagito Komaeda
Sep 23 2016, 04:09 PM
We do, though. It's knowing everything and being able to do anything. We understand both of the concepts, why would there be an issue comprehending a being that has both and what it would be capable of?

If our very idea of God's traits are incorrect, how can we know that anything in the Bible has even a shred of truth?
Really? That's your argument? Because you know the concept of being all knowing, you can understand someone who is?

Gee, I guess a toddler can understand what an adult does to live too, right? Amirite guys?
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* Yu Narukami Sep 24 2016, 12:21 AM Post #108
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Izanagi!
Shining Light
Sep 23 2016, 11:14 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Sep 23 2016, 04:09 PM
We do, though. It's knowing everything and being able to do anything. We understand both of the concepts, why would there be an issue comprehending a being that has both and what it would be capable of?

If our very idea of God's traits are incorrect, how can we know that anything in the Bible has even a shred of truth?
Really? That's your argument? Because you know the concept of being all knowing, you can understand someone who is?

Gee, I guess a toddler can understand what an adult does to live too, right? Amirite guys?
You're right, I should just accept that I know absolutely nothing about a being and pledge my life to it.

We understand the concept so we can point out the various contradictions and nonsense that occurs as a result of it.
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Buuberries Sep 24 2016, 12:25 AM Post #109
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No

 Are you guys debating interpretations of the Bible or am I seeing lots o circular reasoning and assumptions of God existing in the first place
¯\(°_o)/¯
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Dankness Lava Sep 24 2016, 12:45 AM Post #110
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Dankness Forever
Nagito Komaeda
Sep 24 2016, 12:21 AM
Shining Light
Sep 23 2016, 11:14 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Sep 23 2016, 04:09 PM
We do, though. It's knowing everything and being able to do anything. We understand both of the concepts, why would there be an issue comprehending a being that has both and what it would be capable of?

If our very idea of God's traits are incorrect, how can we know that anything in the Bible has even a shred of truth?
Really? That's your argument? Because you know the concept of being all knowing, you can understand someone who is?

Gee, I guess a toddler can understand what an adult does to live too, right? Amirite guys?
You're right, I should just accept that I know absolutely nothing about a being and pledge my life to it.

We understand the concept so we can point out the various contradictions and nonsense that occurs as a result of it.
Of course you shouldn't. But do you really know nothing of the creator? You did read the Bible, right? I wasn't saying we can't know anything about said creator, I was saying we don't know all that he knows.

Is it not similar to living under rule of a king or president?

@buuberries I don't know, are you?
Edited by Dankness Lava, Sep 24 2016, 12:46 AM.
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* Yu Narukami Sep 24 2016, 12:50 AM Post #111
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Izanagi!
Shining Light
Sep 24 2016, 12:45 AM
Nagito Komaeda
Sep 24 2016, 12:21 AM
Shining Light
Sep 23 2016, 11:14 PM
Nagito Komaeda
Sep 23 2016, 04:09 PM
We do, though. It's knowing everything and being able to do anything. We understand both of the concepts, why would there be an issue comprehending a being that has both and what it would be capable of?

If our very idea of God's traits are incorrect, how can we know that anything in the Bible has even a shred of truth?
Really? That's your argument? Because you know the concept of being all knowing, you can understand someone who is?

Gee, I guess a toddler can understand what an adult does to live too, right? Amirite guys?
You're right, I should just accept that I know absolutely nothing about a being and pledge my life to it.

We understand the concept so we can point out the various contradictions and nonsense that occurs as a result of it.
Of course you shouldn't. But do you really know nothing of the creator? You did read the Bible, right? I wasn't saying we can't know anything about said creator, I was saying we don't know all that he knows.

Is it not similar to living under rule of a king or president?

@buuberries I don't know, are you?
But he knows everything, that's the point. He knows everything that has happened, is happening, will happen and could happen. Otherwise he's not all-knowing. The concept is still open to scrutiny and criticism. You can't mix his different traits while holding that he's still a just being, which is what the Bible tells us. You can say that his idea of Justice is different from our own, but every single thing we know about God; his traits, ideas and feats, all find their basis in religious texts, things that are filtered through human experience.
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+ Steve Sep 24 2016, 12:58 AM Post #112
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

 Just because we can't fully understand God doesn't mean we can't criticize it's decisions...


I don't know the first thing about making a video game but I can tell if a game is extremely broken and just because I couldn't make a better game doesn't mean I can't criticize the s***ty job that was done on a game like Colonial Marines.

"We can't understand God" doesn't really mean much. Especially not when that's written by stupid people from thousands of years ago who lack knowledge 4 year olds have today.


God tells us to do certain things and act certain ways or else we're evil and should go to hell.
But then God does them itself and is exempt from any consequence or criticism.
Why is that acceptable? God is a massive hypocrite and a massive douchebag.
Even if it is the almighty creator bending a knee to it and calling it perfect is cowardice in my opinion.


There are truly evil people in the world...but there are also people who are far more moral beings than God.
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Definitely not a succubus, fear not
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Dankness Lava Sep 24 2016, 01:48 AM Post #113
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Dankness Forever

 @nagito komaeda https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OK_Computer

@Steve

"Just because we can't fully understand God doesn't mean we can't criticize it's decisions..."

Yes, and much like with a president, if your criticisms are nullified by unknown repercussions, you will look like a fool.

"I don't know the first thing about making a video game but I can tell if a game is extremely broken and just because I couldn't make a better game doesn't mean I can't criticize the s***ty job that was done on a game like Colonial Marines."

I don't know how you come to the conclusion that that's a good analogy at all.


""We can't understand God" doesn't really mean much. Especially not when that's written by stupid people from thousands of years ago who lack knowledge 4 year olds have today."

What sort of knowledge?

"God tells us to do certain things and act certain ways or else we're evil and should go to hell.
But then God does them itself and is exempt from any consequence or criticism.
Why is that acceptable? God is a massive hypocrite and a massive douchebag.
Even if it is the almighty creator bending a knee to it and calling it perfect is cowardice in my opinion."

Ah, the generalization train has departed. Let me know when you are gonna get into specifics and logistics
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+ Steve Sep 24 2016, 02:34 AM Post #114
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
Shining Light
Sep 24 2016, 01:48 AM


"God tells us to do certain things and act certain ways or else we're evil and should go to hell.
But then God does them itself and is exempt from any consequence or criticism.
Why is that acceptable? God is a massive hypocrite and a massive douchebag.
Even if it is the almighty creator bending a knee to it and calling it perfect is cowardice in my opinion."

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Yes, and much like with a president, if your criticisms are nullified by unknown repercussions, you will look like a fool.


What do you even mean there? It's quite easy to see that God makes some very stupid decisions, why should we pretend otherwise just because it's God?
Every action it makes isn't perfect just because it's God, that's silly.


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I don't know how you come to the conclusion that that's a good analogy at all.


It is because it refutes any "God works in mysterious ways we can't understand" copout. We can understand that God makes many stupid, selfish and downright horrible decisions.

Quote:
 
Ah, the generalization train has departed. Let me know when you are gonna get into specifics and logistics


"Thou shalt not kill"

*kills billions of people, largely on a whim, because of it's own incompetence

Is that not enough? I see no reason to go in to a huge debate about s***ty things God has done because it's not like people who follow a religion are very open to admitting fault within their God/teachings.

(people who have this information on hand, feel free to post it)
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Definitely not a succubus, fear not
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Dankness Lava Sep 24 2016, 02:36 AM Post #115
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Dankness Forever

 Good job showcasing your own ignorance.

...
Edited by Dankness Lava, Sep 24 2016, 02:37 AM.
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+ Steve Sep 24 2016, 02:46 AM Post #116
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
Shining Light
Sep 24 2016, 02:36 AM
Good job showcasing your own ignorance.

...
Good job not responding to anything and refuting any points I made.


God makes mistakes, we know it does. Therefore, we can most certainly judge it's decisions and see that lots of them were awful.

Condemning a whole species based on the actions of one member of it is just silly.
Especially when that member couldn't possibly understand the concept of right and wrong until it did the thing. Silly God.
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Definitely not a succubus, fear not
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SuperSaiyan1993 Sep 24 2016, 02:51 AM Post #117
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Super Saiyan among Super Saiyans

 A dog can learn how to recognize the general gist of our language. Over time, it learns to recognize certain words based on associating those words with rewards and punishments. Yet human concepts will always remain beyond a dog's comprehension. Why? Objectively, a dog's brain is less advanced than a human's brain.

The same reasoning applies with us and God. We can learn how to recognize the general gist of concepts based on associating those concepts with human experiences. Objectively, however, our finite brain cannot comprehend things of an infinite nature, such as omnipotence and omniscience and omni-benevolence, let alone a being with all three simultaneously.

Philosophers have accepted this to be true:

Socrates: "I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is I know nothing."

Confucius: “Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance.”

Lao Tzu: “The wise man is one who, knows, what he does not know.”
We Super Saiyans are in a league of our own.
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Dankness Lava Sep 24 2016, 02:56 AM Post #118
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Dankness Forever
Steve
Sep 24 2016, 02:46 AM
Shining Light
Sep 24 2016, 02:36 AM
Good job showcasing your own ignorance.

...
Good job not responding to anything and refuting any points I made.


God makes mistakes, we know it does. Therefore, we can most certainly judge it's decisions and see that lots of them were awful.

Condemning a whole species based on the actions of one member of it is just silly.
Especially when that member couldn't possibly understand the concept of right and wrong until it did the thing. Silly God.
There was no need to. You aren't even a reliable source of your own knowledge. You need others to back you up.

Be more specific about the mistakes. I'm not doing any guesswork here on all that you have in mind.

Yes, Earth was condemned because of Adam. But you conveniently leave out that ALL WAS WICKED. Wicked thoughts coursed through the minds of all. Almost seems like... like... our planet now. They weren't just instantly slaughtered. They were given a chance to change, and time to think. They chose evil over good.
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+ Steve Sep 24 2016, 03:30 AM Post #119
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
SuperSaiyan1993
Sep 24 2016, 02:51 AM
and omniscience and omni-benevolence, let alone a being with all three simultaneously.
God is none of those things.

A perfect being that knows everything can't make mistakes.

The concept of evil shouldn't even be on the table but it was, God created evil and Satan knowing full well what would happen and blames humans?

Even if humans can't know everything...we can recognize that as sheer stupidity.


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There was no need to. You aren't even a reliable source of your own knowledge. You need others to back you up.


There has been plenty said in this thread unless you haven't read it. It's 4 in the morning, sue me.


Quote:
 
Be more specific about the mistakes. I'm not doing any guesswork here on all that you have in mind.

Yes, Earth was condemned because of Adam. But you conveniently leave out that ALL WAS WICKED. Wicked thoughts coursed through the minds of all. Almost seems like... like... our planet now. They weren't just instantly slaughtered. They were given a chance to change, and time to think. They chose evil over good.


God made imperfect beings, that's a mistake no?

Why is Noah exempt from being wicked then?

Who's to say all was wicked if Noah wasn't. Or did God make him stop being wicked? If so could have done that for everyone but didn't.


Much like how not everyone is bad now.

Do you see how the logic in the Bible is often flawed? It contradicts itself a lot.
http://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/contradictions.html

There's a source for you, go and ignore that.
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+ Ssj3vegito96 Sep 24 2016, 03:37 AM Post #120
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 Here's the thing. When you ask "why are we suffering the consequences for Adam and Eve's mistakes?" the problem is that we ask this assuming we wouldn't have done the same thing. Think what you want, but from my knowledge, Adam represented mankind. The bible implies that if we were in their position, we would have eaten the apple too. That's kind of the point of the story.

We're all sinners by nature. Adam and Eve were influenced by the devil even though God told them not to eat the apple. We do the same thing all the time

You can't say you for sure wouldn't have eaten the apple. When you have a tempting situation and the devil on your shoulder tricking you, you can't tell me you're so perfect you eventually wouldn't have disobeyed God too
IT'S CHEESE
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